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383 with Weiand 177

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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c1500sbc
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383 with Weiand 177

Post by c1500sbc »

Yes, I know, I’m all over the place!

Found a deal on a Weiand 177 locally I just couldn’t pass up! Eventually I’m going to tear the motor back down and lower the compression ratio but as of right now I’m just going to run 93 premium and retard the timing.

This is a long nose blower I believe. I knew the serpentine belt system would probably be an issue. Any suggestions? Not only does the blower motor tensioner hit the belt tensioner the outlet for the thermostat housing pints direct at and behind the alternator! In addition to that, the center hole on the crankshaft pulley isn’t large enough for the center of the blower pulley to go throw!
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Last edited by c1500sbc on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

With the high compression ratio and pump gas you will be VERY LIMITED on boost you can add.
3-4 psi max.. That includes retarding timing. too so...

Better to start with another engine or short block with low cr.. Like a dished piston 350..

You will likely end up converting to the 70's era old school front accessories mount config.
EG third gen camaro w carbed 305.
V belt p/s. flat rib belt alternator/water pump pulleys.
Right side alt mount.
You will need a rad mounted electric fan (s)

The only way to reliabily run significant boost with a high compression ratio is to intercool (water-meth injection)

Why not build a low cr 350 short block and keep the 383 short as. spare.

What is the pulley diameter of the blower drive pulley?
"". "". ". crank pulley?

You can wound that 383 easily with high cr and boost wether forged or cast... i including fubar the block
When you take out a piston from detonation.
Better to swap the short block at least.
VS trash that 383 beyond repair.

Even a stock dish piston 350 with a krylon rebuild will get you started in a nice way (rings & bearingd & gaskets) When you do that open up the top ring end gap on the stock cast dished pistons about 40%.

You can even do a junkyard 305 with 350 heads (7.2:1 cr) and GLH.
I would not beat on that 383.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Verify you have the longnose blower snout.
Dimention "G" front of pulley to blower snout mounting flange. is 8-11/16 (long)
7-7/16 (short) [68 back and corvette ]
F-BIRD'88
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Your problem is going to be mounting and driving the A/C compressor.
c1500sbc
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by c1500sbc »

I should have trusted my gut, after taking all the measurements it’s definitely a 142, not a 177 like he said. Hopefully he just gives me my money back! He works at a performance shop here in town.

All a man wants is 400-425whp, is that too much to ask for?? 😂
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by SupStk »

Guess it don't make any difference since you are returning the blower. Concerning the register being too big on the lower pulley, does it fit a BBC damper?
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by RevTheory »

Shoot. I was going to say it'll never work with that serpentine system and that you should send me the kit but since the blower wont work anyway, I guess there's no need to go with old-school belts. :D
c1500sbc
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by c1500sbc »

The guys is being reasonable and realizes his mistake. But is also saying he spent most of the money already.

What do y’all think about running a 142/144 on a 383? I know it’s pretty small, but with the current CR I can only squeeze in a few PSI anyways. Looking at a couple folks that have done it, it seems that the stock pulley configuration on a 383 nets about 3 psi. Plus, I want my hood to be able to clear it.

This is only if he won’t give me my money back, or wants to work out a partial refund deal.

The goal is to still tear it down and swap pistons out and run a little more PSI. Same build I reference above the guy swapped to the 7” and get about 6-7 psi out of it. Which put him in the 500 hp/tq range. Which is right here I want to be.
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

You won't get even close to 500 hp with the 142 blower on pump gas.

Once you get beyond 2.30;1 drive ratio the blower heats the air up.. Way too much.
HOT BOOSTED AIR is what kills engines FAST.
When you drive those blowers that fast YIU MUST USE water/ meth injection and 110 octane race gas.

Or run it on METHANOL.

On pump gas you will top out at about 460 hp..
(2.30:1 drive ratio 28° low 7.5-8.5 cr)
You will spend more $$ trying than if you just bought the correct blower..

I thought that that drive snout looked odd.
(The 177 has a cast tube snout)
Thats what got me on checking its length.
The intake looked low rise too..

Those blowers are fun on a low CR 305. with cylinder heads from a 350 (ported 1.94" valves) cause the CR is low and you can boost the hell out of it.. (needs a cam)
(2.15:1. 2.30:1 drive ratio)

Waste of time and money on a 383.. You will trash that 383. trying.....$$$$$
F-BIRD'88
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

That 2.30:1 drive ratio sweet spot on a low cr sbc on pump gas is the same on a 142 as on a 177 blower.
It heats the air up X amount on both. but the 177 is moving more air than the lil 142.
Even at that the 6 rib standard drive pulleys slip a lot .

2.47:1 Extreme blower drive speed →→→
Overheated charge air. needs intercooling.
$$$ 10 Rib drive upgrade $$$$
Cog belt drive upgrade $$$$!!!

Race gas $$$$. methanol fuel. upgrade $$$$
a set or 2 sets pistons trying. $$$$$$

Get your money back or find a 305 or 350 to play with it for fun. They are a BLAST of fun on a low budget hotrodded 305.
c1500sbc
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by c1500sbc »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:10 pm That 2.30:1 drive ratio sweet spot on a low cr sbc on pump gas is the same on a 142 as on a 177 blower.
It heats the air up X amount on both. but the 177 is moving more air than the lil 142.
Even at that the 6 rib standard drive pulleys slip a lot .

2.47:1 Extreme blower drive speed →→→
Overheated charge air. needs intercooling.
$$$ 10 Rib drive upgrade $$$$
Cog belt drive upgrade $$$$!!!

Race gas $$$$. methanol fuel. upgrade $$$$
a set or 2 sets pistons trying. $$$$$$

Get your money back or find a 305 or 350 to play with it for fun. They are a BLAST of fun on a low budget hotrodded 305.
Why are you always right F-Bird??? 😂 I have considered e-85 but the consistency of it seems to be a big problem with a carburetor. The most cost effective option would be to replace the pistons on the current 383 with something to lower compression. Sounds like even with that and trying to get 6psi out of the 142 would be a waste of money?

The goal for the truck has always been 400-450whp.

Would the 142 and a properly built 350 get me there? I could always sell the 383 and build the 350.

I wish there was just a way to just get the current 383 into that 500 crank hp range NA and not have a pain in the ass to drive street truck.

If I can get my money back I will. If not I’ll either try to sell it or build a 305/350. In that regard, obviously finding a 305 is a whole lot cheaper. Would the extra cubes of the 350 result in that much more hp?
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

A 350 will make a small minor amount more hp than a 305 but will make more tirque than a 305 both with a 142 blower. A 383 will max out again with a minor hp gain over a 350 and again will make more torque all maxed out.. The 383 requires the most maxed out bloeer speed to do this thus hotter charge air temps. more likely to detonate..
Of course if the 305 has crappy stock 305 heads it is not going to make much power. So we are talking about near equal head flow in each..
The blower size ultimately limits how much power you can make reguardless of the engine cid.
Whdn the blower runs out of air, it runs out of airflow (cfm). but the larger cid engine will make more mid range torque than the smaller engine.

You could get the 500 bhp you want on your 383 N/A @ 10.50:1 cr on pump gas by fully porting your heads and going to a bigger (solid) street roller cam.

To get 500+ hp from the 142 blower requires intercooling to get the charge air temp down and the net density UP.
Boost is usless without decent density.

Water/Meth inj gets you there on 93 pump gas..
$600 to $1000 for a decent W/M kit
You got to really step in a 142 blower hard to get 500 hp out of it. Roots blowers need a big big carb cfm to make max power. Restricting the inlet limits boost and power.
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

While ultimately a 350 will make a bit more hp than a 305 with ghe 142, the power that a 305 makes with a 142 is more impressive gain. "I can't believe thats a 305"!
The 305 will want more rpm and more cam than a 350.
They both have to EAT to make power.
Realistic HP on pump gas about 460 -470 hp.
Like I said with intercooling you can step on the blower harder for more power.
If you really want something under hood look at the TorqStorm blower.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88 on Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
c1500sbc
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by c1500sbc »

I’m slowly learning here as I go. Still fairly new to the performance side of engines.

Ultimately it sounds like the 142 (which I was told was a 177) isn’t going to get me where I want to be regardless of engine choice/build. Or barely get me there. It’s going to be sold or returned if the guy will work with me. Small claims court would get my money back I think but a long process.

Any suggestions on a solid roller cam? Any suggestions on a good head porter?
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Re: 383 with Weiand 177

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

I'm in Canada so cannot recomend some one local to you.. A good example of a solid street roller that will get you there with your 383 is Comps XR 286R-10.
Their K kit gets it done.. I like UDHarolds Ultradyne solid street rollers also (Bullet or Lunati) Of equal .050" duration "shoe size" (.585" lift) Some people do with hyd roller setup. "Girlie cam"
I avoid that rabbit hole.

500 bhp on a 383 on pump gas is a cake walk with the 177 blower.. It is 650 hp capable.
I think your heads need some sweetening reguardless.
If I really wanted to step on a 383 with the 177 blower on pump gas I would use that same XR286R-10 cam also.
104/116 centers.
Your current hyd roller cam is capable of 500 hp+ with the 177. I'd again adjust it to optimize with The blower on the 383.

Its too bad that that guy is trying to stiff you with that 142 blower.. It is going to leave you a bit short on the power you want..
A 177. or the 192 TBS blower is what you want on a 383.
Dod you pay a lot for the 142? A lot of people sell them off once they get to the realistic pump gas power capacity with it.

Of all the sbc motors we did with the 142-144 blowers tbe 305 sbc was to most fun and impressive .!
A whole new version of "GLH"!!!
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