582 just off the dyno, mase 990 at 7100 on a Land & Sea dyno which the owner stated was 3 to 6 % less than a Superflow would read. Anyway it's just a number, the real test will be how it does in the car.TOP38 wrote:Have you done anything to the heads??? What valve sizes? How's the transition from the valve job to the cnc port work? Probably needs work here!! With a little tlc in this critcal area you will see some reasonable gains,, @.900 lift on a 4.500 bore I'm just shy of 410 CFM, same head on a 4.600 bore should add anywhere from 10 to 20 cfm which would put them right were dart says... I would recomend a 2.325 or 2.35 intake valve also, not the 2.300,,,SupStk wrote:Just got my hands on a set and run 'em over the bench. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement.
Top numbers on the intakes are 393.9 @ .850 with very little gain from .700 to .950. At .450 to .550 it goes stagnet and starts moving again @.600.
The exhaust side marched steadily along up to the top number of 324 @ .950.
My bench is a JKM 600, I was using a 4.625 adaptor, 3/4 radiused intake and no pipe on exhaust.
My questions: Are these numbers inline with your tests? Is my bench suspect at the higher flow numbers?
My goal of 1100 HP on a 565 using these heads appear unrealistic despite what Dart claims.
As for power,, 1100 HP from any convential head is one nice piece and just doesn't happen by chance. I have a friend going to the dyno in 2 weeks, 582 w/these heads, bracket deal, looking for and honest 1000 HP.. Also another racer I know, don't have all the details but I know there's nothing out of the box with his heads,, Brodix Head Hunters,, 582 that made over 1100 HP.. Performance on track supports this number too....
Lots going on in the BBC convential heads these days!!! You got Dart, brodix, eldelbrock, and others all battling to be top dog.. Good for us racers...
Big Joe, there are a number of 355 pro one headed BBC that flow 415 cfm and are knocking on the door of 1000 HP in bracket form,, at least from my bench,, these heads may flow 440 on others though..
As for who to talk to at dart on these, speak to tony.
Hope this helps.
Dart BBC CNC 380's
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Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
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Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
SupStk wrote:Just got my hands on a set and run 'em over the bench. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement.
Top numbers on the intakes are 393.9 @ .850 with very little gain from .700 to .950. At .450 to .550 it goes stagnet and starts moving again @.600.
The exhaust side marched steadily along up to the top number of 324 @ .950.
My bench is a JKM 600, I was using a 4.625 adaptor, 3/4 radiused intake and no pipe on exhaust.
My questions: Are these numbers inline with your tests? Is my bench suspect at the higher flow numbers?
My goal of 1100 HP on a 565 using these heads appear unrealistic despite what Dart claims.
Monty,
I see you are in SD. Have you ever worked with Dan Harry of Harry`s Heads in Sioux City? He does a bunch of Dart stuff and is probably familiar with that head. Been doing it for a long time.
I just sent Darin Morgan my set of Profiler 320`s that Dan did his basic bowl blend and valve job on for a repair and he told me "By the way. Who ever ported your heads did a VERY good job!"
His number is 712-277-2911
Brent
Galatians 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
Please let us know how it goes. When will it be run?TOP38 wrote:582 just off the dyno, mase 990 at 7100 on a Land & Sea dyno which the owner stated was 3 to 6 % less than a Superflow would read. Anyway it's just a number, the real test will be how it does in the car.TOP38 wrote:Have you done anything to the heads??? What valve sizes? How's the transition from the valve job to the cnc port work? Probably needs work here!! With a little tlc in this critcal area you will see some reasonable gains,, @.900 lift on a 4.500 bore I'm just shy of 410 CFM, same head on a 4.600 bore should add anywhere from 10 to 20 cfm which would put them right were dart says... I would recomend a 2.325 or 2.35 intake valve also, not the 2.300,,,SupStk wrote:Just got my hands on a set and run 'em over the bench. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement.
Top numbers on the intakes are 393.9 @ .850 with very little gain from .700 to .950. At .450 to .550 it goes stagnet and starts moving again @.600.
The exhaust side marched steadily along up to the top number of 324 @ .950.
My bench is a JKM 600, I was using a 4.625 adaptor, 3/4 radiused intake and no pipe on exhaust.
My questions: Are these numbers inline with your tests? Is my bench suspect at the higher flow numbers?
My goal of 1100 HP on a 565 using these heads appear unrealistic despite what Dart claims.
As for power,, 1100 HP from any convential head is one nice piece and just doesn't happen by chance. I have a friend going to the dyno in 2 weeks, 582 w/these heads, bracket deal, looking for and honest 1000 HP.. Also another racer I know, don't have all the details but I know there's nothing out of the box with his heads,, Brodix Head Hunters,, 582 that made over 1100 HP.. Performance on track supports this number too....
Lots going on in the BBC convential heads these days!!! You got Dart, brodix, eldelbrock, and others all battling to be top dog.. Good for us racers...
Big Joe, there are a number of 355 pro one headed BBC that flow 415 cfm and are knocking on the door of 1000 HP in bracket form,, at least from my bench,, these heads may flow 440 on others though..
As for who to talk to at dart on these, speak to tony.
Hope this helps.
Fatman.
Will do,,, this motor is going in a new RED. Should be ready to run in a month or so but we should have a good idea on it's performance sooner. We also dyno'ed a 598 on the same day as the 582. The 598 is already in the car and ready to go,, mother nature squashed it's debute today and may again tomorrow. So once we can get to the track on a sunny day based on the performance of the 598, the 582 will also be known. We expect that the 582 will run in the 7.20-7.30 range at 1900 pounds on a good track w/decent air. The 598 could go 0's , it's a good 125 plus pounds lighter.
Will do,,, this motor is going in a new RED. Should be ready to run in a month or so but we should have a good idea on it's performance sooner. We also dyno'ed a 598 on the same day as the 582. The 598 is already in the car and ready to go,, mother nature squashed it's debute today and may again tomorrow. So once we can get to the track on a sunny day based on the performance of the 598, the 582 will also be known. We expect that the 582 will run in the 7.20-7.30 range at 1900 pounds on a good track w/decent air. The 598 could go 0's , it's a good 125 plus pounds lighter.
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Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
Brent, I know who Dan Harry is although I've never talked to him. I put his number in the rolladex for future reference, thanks.prostreetL-78 wrote:SupStk wrote:Just got my hands on a set and run 'em over the bench. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement.
Top numbers on the intakes are 393.9 @ .850 with very little gain from .700 to .950. At .450 to .550 it goes stagnet and starts moving again @.600.
The exhaust side marched steadily along up to the top number of 324 @ .950.
My bench is a JKM 600, I was using a 4.625 adaptor, 3/4 radiused intake and no pipe on exhaust.
My questions: Are these numbers inline with your tests? Is my bench suspect at the higher flow numbers?
My goal of 1100 HP on a 565 using these heads appear unrealistic despite what Dart claims.
Monty,
I see you are in SD. Have you ever worked with Dan Harry of Harry`s Heads in Sioux City? He does a bunch of Dart stuff and is probably familiar with that head. Been doing it for a long time.
I just sent Darin Morgan my set of Profiler 320`s that Dan did his basic bowl blend and valve job on for a repair and he told me "By the way. Who ever ported your heads did a VERY good job!"
His number is 712-277-2911
Brent
I did a little blending on those ports and picked up all the way though with an average of 12 cfm at peak. I'm going to put 'em together at the customer's request with the 2.300's. When freshing the motor this fall we'll get more involved with the heads and possably send 'em out.
Monty Frerichs
B&M Machine
B&M Machine
what was the average power between say 5k and 7500 ?369dragster wrote:Curtis,Wayne's motor made 984 with a gas carb,and when they bolted the Terminator on it made 1021 and 834 ft/lbs of torque. Ken
how did the averages compare from the 582 to the 598???
These two engines just had basic manifold porting, not any full porting
right? what manifold was on the 582?
curtis
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
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Curtis
Both motors were not flogged on the dyno due to time. Mechanical issues on the way to the dyno shortened the window available also. They arrived at 10:30 AM, put on the 582, after the normal check out they made about 8 pulls, 3 on gas and the rest on alky. Same with the 598 so they weren't optimized,, but they are close. The 598 came off the dyno at 12:30 AM!! in the car and ready to go except for water the converter bolts by 1:30 AM, then a 3 plus hour drive to the track... then it rained!!UG!
Here's a few numbers from the 582, just note that we have no experience w/this dyno vs on track performance, we just have their words regarding how conservative it is.
6200 910 hp
6500 940
6800 961
7000 975
7300 987
7500 975
The 582 was a little lite on valve spring and valve float appear to begin arround 75 or 7600.
I am surprized Wayne hasn't called you 10 times by now... His motor made 1005 on gas and 1021 on alky at very similar rpm's as the 582. Both motors has super victor intake as you mentioned, port matched and a cleaned up plenum.
All in all things went very well and we we happy with the results. Now we need to get some real world results, the ET slip!! On that note Wayne did find his issue from his his go arround,, yes the block was bad but his fule pump was junk! He started on alky w/the tune up that was in at the track a month ago, motor lost 75 HP from the gas pull. They swapped pumps from the 582, 1015HP so ihe has two issues going on. Obviously the fuel pump was the biggest issue which caused his lack of performance. Also the little bugger held out on me, he went with a donovan aluminum block this time arround rather than a steel block so there's probably another 20 hp due to ring seal on his next freshen up.
Both motors were not flogged on the dyno due to time. Mechanical issues on the way to the dyno shortened the window available also. They arrived at 10:30 AM, put on the 582, after the normal check out they made about 8 pulls, 3 on gas and the rest on alky. Same with the 598 so they weren't optimized,, but they are close. The 598 came off the dyno at 12:30 AM!! in the car and ready to go except for water the converter bolts by 1:30 AM, then a 3 plus hour drive to the track... then it rained!!UG!
Here's a few numbers from the 582, just note that we have no experience w/this dyno vs on track performance, we just have their words regarding how conservative it is.
6200 910 hp
6500 940
6800 961
7000 975
7300 987
7500 975
The 582 was a little lite on valve spring and valve float appear to begin arround 75 or 7600.
I am surprized Wayne hasn't called you 10 times by now... His motor made 1005 on gas and 1021 on alky at very similar rpm's as the 582. Both motors has super victor intake as you mentioned, port matched and a cleaned up plenum.
All in all things went very well and we we happy with the results. Now we need to get some real world results, the ET slip!! On that note Wayne did find his issue from his his go arround,, yes the block was bad but his fule pump was junk! He started on alky w/the tune up that was in at the track a month ago, motor lost 75 HP from the gas pull. They swapped pumps from the 582, 1015HP so ihe has two issues going on. Obviously the fuel pump was the biggest issue which caused his lack of performance. Also the little bugger held out on me, he went with a donovan aluminum block this time arround rather than a steel block so there's probably another 20 hp due to ring seal on his next freshen up.
how good is a 32°-45°-60°-70° on a motor you want to turn high rpm and have good airflow ? A little off the topic but just had that thoughtcboggs wrote:Flow bench ads, awww, .. now you know how ugly I am, ..
I use a 50* seat, .. 65, 75 and 82, .. oval shaped throat, ..
I just finished a set today with a 2.3" valve and my VJ that went
435 @ .900" on my bench, .. 396 before, ..
Curtis
Al,
Of course Wayne called me, .. last night when I was leaving MIR and the Mountain motor nationals,.. ..
we are going to try a fully ported S vic soon, .. as i think it's holding
both of these combos back.
Everyone makes a big deal about peak numbers, . but the averages
really tell the story and how an engine will act on the track, ..
from what Wayne told me I think his will fly !
So the 582 is an iron block and the 598 is an aluminum block, ..
as for these dyno numbers I really think you've found an honest dyno, ..
or maybe even a little light.
trmntr - those seat angles would be great for my mother's stationwagon.
There's some very good posts here on valve jobs, I do a search and read them.
Curtis
Of course Wayne called me, .. last night when I was leaving MIR and the Mountain motor nationals,.. ..
we are going to try a fully ported S vic soon, .. as i think it's holding
both of these combos back.
Everyone makes a big deal about peak numbers, . but the averages
really tell the story and how an engine will act on the track, ..
from what Wayne told me I think his will fly !
So the 582 is an iron block and the 598 is an aluminum block, ..
as for these dyno numbers I really think you've found an honest dyno, ..
or maybe even a little light.
trmntr - those seat angles would be great for my mother's stationwagon.
There's some very good posts here on valve jobs, I do a search and read them.
Curtis
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
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Re:
I would have to disagree with your calculated horsepower claims. I have a 565 with a set of Dart Pro-1 355 cnc'd cylinder heads with a cast intake and a single 4-barrel I made 1060 HP. and made 1110 HP with a set of Profiler X375's on it. Not all 565's are built the same...double r wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:29 pm I have a solution for you. No I don't work for them. Just thought I would post what their combos are for getting that kind of hp is...
RM Conventional headed 565 with dart 355's is 950+hp but the others are all race heads.
565 Big Chief / 1000hp
18º Pro 1
or
12º Raptor All Aluminum 565ci / 1,100hp
or from steve schmidt
565 "The Terminator" Drag Racing Engine - 1150 HP
12* profiler heads.
I am sure curtis could get you close with conventional heads also...
Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
Another zombie thread!
Since I was the OP, thought I'd state the finished version on this build. Ended up getting 452 cfm at .900 and eliminated the stagnated areas of flow. The engine made 1084hp. Not quite the 1100 hp goal but the customer seemed happy.
Since I was the OP, thought I'd state the finished version on this build. Ended up getting 452 cfm at .900 and eliminated the stagnated areas of flow. The engine made 1084hp. Not quite the 1100 hp goal but the customer seemed happy.
Monty Frerichs
B&M Machine
B&M Machine
Re: Dart BBC CNC 380's
Did you go to a 2.350” valve and a steeper seat?
3370lb Sedan 9.89@136MPH 358chevN/A