Propylene Oxide Combustion
Moderator: Team
Propylene Oxide Combustion
Propylene oxide is banned from use by most sanctioning bodies and is a substantial health hazard. However, people do use it and there is a lot of interest in it despite the obvious (above).
We are looking at possibly doing some combustion pressure tests with it. Basic information is widely available. However, prior to doing anything with it, it would be interesting to hear from people that have used it firsthand ( or have a "friend" that used it, don't want to blow anyone's cover), mainly from a performance viewpoint, but perhaps some info from a handling perspective as well.
Radical applications are most welcome, for instance running propylene oxide at high concentrations or straight or mixing it with unusual fuels etc. etc.
Clint Gray
TFX Engine Technology Inc.
(Combustion/Intake/Exhaust Pressure Analysis Equipment)
www.tfxengine.com
We are looking at possibly doing some combustion pressure tests with it. Basic information is widely available. However, prior to doing anything with it, it would be interesting to hear from people that have used it firsthand ( or have a "friend" that used it, don't want to blow anyone's cover), mainly from a performance viewpoint, but perhaps some info from a handling perspective as well.
Radical applications are most welcome, for instance running propylene oxide at high concentrations or straight or mixing it with unusual fuels etc. etc.
Clint Gray
TFX Engine Technology Inc.
(Combustion/Intake/Exhaust Pressure Analysis Equipment)
www.tfxengine.com
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race fuel
Years ago, some guy came to run on my dyno, and he had some to test. In real small percentages it did almost NOTHING. BUT, when we got up to about 10 %, it started to make some real power. This was like a street racer who wanted a edge. On a 615 HP 355 Chevy, it went up 642 with the 10 % . I was afraid to try more. It was very expensive at the time ( 1993 )we were adding it ti VP C-12 fuel at the time.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
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Propylene oxide contains 27.5% oxygen,
has a stoich value of 9.51/1,
a heating value of 1413 BTU/lb of air,
a boiling point of 93F,
is a class A3 carcinogen (nasal cancer)
with a TLV of 2 ppm.
When added to a typical race gas (isooctane) 10% by volume will increase fuel BTU by 1%. But observed power could increase by much more due to its ease of evaporation and ignitability.
It is on the HAZMAT list for most race sanctioning bodies and should be avoided.
has a stoich value of 9.51/1,
a heating value of 1413 BTU/lb of air,
a boiling point of 93F,
is a class A3 carcinogen (nasal cancer)
with a TLV of 2 ppm.
When added to a typical race gas (isooctane) 10% by volume will increase fuel BTU by 1%. But observed power could increase by much more due to its ease of evaporation and ignitability.
It is on the HAZMAT list for most race sanctioning bodies and should be avoided.
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Klotz Lube has some great fuel additives that also work great; they contain Nitropropane.
http://www.klotzlube.com/storeCats.asp?ci=3
http://www.klotzlube.com/storeCats.asp?ci=3
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I tryed it years ago in my old slow truck. I ran a mix of 90% 100LL avgas and 10% propylene. I increased the carb jetting by 10% also. The truck picked up .15 in the 1/4 verse straight 91 pump gas on back to back passes with no other changes. Dave
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Re: race fuel
Joe,bigjoe1 wrote:Years ago, some guy came to run on my dyno, and he had some to test. In real small percentages it did almost NOTHING. BUT, when we got up to about 10 %, it started to make some real power. This was like a street racer who wanted a edge. On a 615 HP 355 Chevy, it went up 642 with the 10 % . I was afraid to try more. It was very expensive at the time ( 1993 )we were adding it ti VP C-12 fuel at the time.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
Have you heard any numbers on Propylene Oxide use in the engine oil?
Dinitrotouloulene is another chemical that I have heard of to use in the oil. I believe it is an oxidizer as well.
Gary,
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While I can't confirm the explosive characteristics of PO, it has a very low boiling point which makes it difficult to keep around without evaporating away. It is even difficult to keep in a fuel; the proportions will change due to evaporation.nissan-lover wrote:I thought it was an explosion hazard at high levels, it becomes unstable on storage, apart from the cancer issue, that was another reason to ban it.
Mike
The MSDS sheets indicate that it is stable (100% concentration), except when it is in contact with incompatibles. Apparently in the presence of water it turns into propylene glycol.
I should point out that our interest is not in promoting the use of propylene oxide, but more in the study of how and why it affects combustion to the extent that it does - using measured combustion values, not theorized. What is learned, may be useful, even if the fuel itself is not. Info based on firsthand experiences would also factor in i.e. we should expect similar performance results and would like to know what to expect in terms of behavior in general.
Clint Gray
TFX Engine Technology Inc.
(Combustion Pressure Analysis Equipment)
www.tfxengine.com
I should point out that our interest is not in promoting the use of propylene oxide, but more in the study of how and why it affects combustion to the extent that it does - using measured combustion values, not theorized. What is learned, may be useful, even if the fuel itself is not. Info based on firsthand experiences would also factor in i.e. we should expect similar performance results and would like to know what to expect in terms of behavior in general.
Clint Gray
TFX Engine Technology Inc.
(Combustion Pressure Analysis Equipment)
www.tfxengine.com
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In the late 60's, Allen Green Chevrolet raced a Chevy ll Fastback Big Block. Those boys were allways drunk. That car tried to run fast but it was allways out of control.
One week-end while in the pits, there was a huge explosion & no one knew for a few seconds what happened. -------- We saw parts flying in the air along with plenty of smoke & dust. Parts were falling on cars in the pits & we all wondered 'what the'......
Seems those boys were using P/O & had crossed a plug wire, while attempting to start in the lanes. ------- The right bank split a head in half, blew off part of one fender & hood showering the shrapnel through out the imidiate area, & into the pits.
Only when I saw the front half of the cylinder head missing, did I realise what was flying around the pits. ---------- A few spectators were hit with pieces but no serious wounds.
One of those things you never forget when your a kid.
No one knew they were using P/O. This was during the early days of experimenting with power adders.
One week-end while in the pits, there was a huge explosion & no one knew for a few seconds what happened. -------- We saw parts flying in the air along with plenty of smoke & dust. Parts were falling on cars in the pits & we all wondered 'what the'......
Seems those boys were using P/O & had crossed a plug wire, while attempting to start in the lanes. ------- The right bank split a head in half, blew off part of one fender & hood showering the shrapnel through out the imidiate area, & into the pits.
Only when I saw the front half of the cylinder head missing, did I realise what was flying around the pits. ---------- A few spectators were hit with pieces but no serious wounds.
One of those things you never forget when your a kid.
No one knew they were using P/O. This was during the early days of experimenting with power adders.
We make Propylene Oxide where I work. I can tell you frist hand... handle and store with extreem care! We had a small strainer get blocked in with about 3 gallons of Propylene Oxide. When it got hot enough sitting in the sun it finally exploded. That 3 gallons blew two railway tanker cars off the tracks and twisted up 8" steel I beams . We had another accident when operations was safeing the unit for T&I work when they were clearing a line off the reactors with steam. A small loop in the line was holding 50 gallons. It caused 3 million dollars in damage and burned 3 men. not trying to scare anyone. Just think and keep in mind the dangers of playing around with this stuff.
Darrin
Darrin
91 mustang street car..blown sbf hci 5 spd meth inject.... new street motor project.... 408 sbf n/a