Trick carb down 50 hp

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:56 pm

Or the vacuum signal is somehow not reaching the PV, thus it is always open..

andyf · Post by **andyf** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:01 pm

If the power valves were open all the time it doesn't seem like that would matter much at a fast idle. It might make the mixture a tiny bit richer but it should still run.

With the power valves blocked off this carb would not run at all, it sounded so bad the guys from the front of the shop came running back to see what had gone wrong.

We thought maybe the original power valves were leaking fuel into the intake so we replaced them with new ones. The carb went back to running poorly but at least it ran.

The EGT's show a different pattern with this carb than with the other couple of carbs that we ran so I think that might be a clue. Maybe one whole corner of the carb is messed up. It might just be running on three boosters or something. The engine really sounds bad when this carb is on there. The engine makes a much nicer sound with the UltraHP. You can hear the power difference even at just fast idle. That leads me to believe that there is a real fuel distribution problem with this carb. Or maybe it just can't atomize the fuel properly for some unknown reason.

Dodge Freak · Post by **Dodge Freak** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:12 pm

MadBill wrote:Or the vacuum signal is somehow not reaching the PV, thus it is always open..

Thats a good maybe too...and if the main jets are way too lean when the power valve gets plug then the motor can't idle fast--the power valve is good for 8 to 10 jet sizes, depending on the PVR holes, I could see how 10 sizes too lean would cause a fast idle problem...

Maybe the base plate gasket is blocking the vacuum port to the power valve....

Well at least you are on the right track...funny it didn't show up when the carb was bench check--if it was

RayJE Carburetors · Post by **RayJE Carburetors** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:21 pm

check that the booster stakes are sealed in the booster banjo... ive had a number of carbs that have had stakes that are loose and act like a big air bleed.....also the inserts mightnt be sealed in the banjo either....

Andy .. .swap metering blocks off the ultra and put on the "trick"carb

regarding the Ultra Dominators .. i have had 3 supplied to me as cores for customers ....and 2 sets had no Kill Bleed Jet in them...... the blocks are BLP with Holley Etched on them.......Mike you want to get onto Holley about it ........

Strange Magic · Post by **Strange Magic** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:19 am

A dominator with power valves for drag racing

That should have been the first clue that it would be a piece of #^%!

k-star · Post by **k-star** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:36 am

I have 2 questions:

Did you get this carb built just for this combo???

What did the carb builder tell you when you called and explaned to him what it was doing???

Keith

lluciano77 · Post by **lluciano77** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:35 am

Really, your problem is that it is a 3 circuit carb. Read as much as possible out of this link. There are links from this link too, and do a search on (3 circuit dominator) on this site. You will most likely not get the 3 circuit carb to work at all.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/foru ... +dominator

Brian Rock · Post by **Brian Rock** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:27 am

k-star wrote:I have 2 questions:

Did you get this carb built just for this combo???

What did the carb builder tell you when you called and explaned to him what it was doing???

Keith

I almost posted this last night, but did'nt think I could really add much to the discussion. If this was an ebay carb or something, then I can understand having issues. If the Engine's owner is the origional purchaser and had this carb built just for THIS engine, then the builder should make it right.

Not sticking up for anyone here, but I have had great luck with my red booster, three circut carb on the GTO. I started without a PV at the builders reccommendation, and went TO a PV up front for a little better economy on the Drag Week, Anti-Tour type stuff. Mileage went from in the 11's to 13 on a steady highway drive (important on a 1500 mile trip with a 12 gallon cell). The car still 60's the same, and driveability is cleaner off idle. It worked good before, and it works good now.
We did try my carb on a buddies BBC with 120 more cubes and 2 points more compression. It was a lazy pig, and would'nt rpm for anything. Put it back on my car and it worked fine.
These things aren't as universal as I always thought.

jeffmckc · Post by **jeffmckc** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:25 am

I have a red booster carb also, and use the same builder as Brian, my 420 made 30 more HP with a Quick Fuel 950 4150 style than the custom built Dominator for the motor. My 427 build I had sold the 950 so I did not try it, but the Dom is lazy off idle and idles high after a long drive. I think it has troubles too I have not taken the time to tune it much. I am EFI now but if I had stayed I would be switching carbs or doing a lot of work on that one before I used it again.

$um Toy · Post by **$um Toy** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:50 am

I would love to know what builder you guys are referring to, as my carb builder uses red boosters and all four that I have purchased from him have been the best carbs I have ever run. They include a single alcohol dominator, single gas dominator, and twin gas dominators. They have won me many events and several points championships. Just think what I could have done if I would have had some of these carbs with those awesome purple or black boosters!

John W · Post by **John W** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:00 am

lluciano77 wrote:Really, your problem is that it is a 3 circuit carb. Read as much as possible out of this link. There are links from this link too, and do a search on (3 circuit dominator) on this site. You will most likely not get the 3 circuit carb to work at all.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/foru ... +dominator

andyf wrote:
As a final check we put the UltraHP Dominator back on there (which is also a three circuit carb) and the motor went back to making 680 hp instead of 630 hp.

If the UltraHP is also a 3 circuit and runs fine and makes the power it should, why does he need to convert this "trick" carb to 2 circuit??

Send the "trick" carb back to the builder. Dyno data for both carbs probably wouldn't hurt either.

andyf · Post by **andyf** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:51 am

John W wrote:
lluciano77 wrote:Really, your problem is that it is a 3 circuit carb. Read as much as possible out of this link. There are links from this link too, and do a search on (3 circuit dominator) on this site. You will most likely not get the 3 circuit carb to work at all.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/foru ... +dominator

If the UltraHP is also a 3 circuit and runs fine and makes the power it should, why does he need to convert this "trick" carb to 2 circuit??

Send the "trick" carb back to the builder. Dyno data for both carbs probably wouldn't hurt either.

I agree. The UltraHP that I'm using produces a dead flat AF curve over the dyno pull. The EGT's stay within a 10 degree band for the entire pull and it makes good power. The EGT's on the other carb vary as much as 200 degrees during a pull.

There might be problems with the three circuit design for other applications but this UltraHP that I have now is a very good dyno carb.

To get another data point we ran this Braswell 4150 carb on the motor with a Wilson 4500 to 4150 adapter. This Braswell carb has big 1.590 venturis so it flows plenty of air. It had a good fuel curve and stable EGTs and made basically the same power as the UltraHP. The Braswell had slightly higher torque numbers down around 4000 rpm and slightly lower hp numbers at 6000 rpm. I've always had great results with the various Braswell carbs that I've used over the years and this one was no exception.

jeffmckc · Post by **jeffmckc** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:55 pm

$um Toy wrote:I would love to know what builder you guys are referring to, as my carb builder uses red boosters and all four that I have purchased from him have been the best carbs I have ever run. They include a single alcohol dominator, single gas dominator, and twin gas dominators. They have won me many events and several points championships. Just think what I could have done if I would have had some of these carbs with those awesome purple or black boosters!

I know everyone has there input on this, I am not saying anything bad about the builder, just that the combo did not work on mine out of the box. He builds a great product and offered my money back or to work it out. It is not the reason I went EFI. Funny thing is unless I had the Quick Fel one on,I would have never known just from the dyno #s

Doug Schriefer · Post by **Doug Schriefer** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:16 pm

A few things:

First NEVER just put the same jets from one carb into another (that are built and calibrated differently) Based on how they are designed this could be dangerous.

Second, what did the builder of this carb say?

John W · Post by **John W** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:21 pm

andyf wrote:
To get another data point we ran this Braswell 4150 carb on the motor with a Wilson 4500 to 4150 adapter. This Braswell carb has big 1.590 venturis so it flows plenty of air. It had a good fuel curve and stable EGTs and made basically the same power as the UltraHP. The Braswell had slightly higher torque numbers down around 4000 rpm and slightly lower hp numbers at 6000 rpm. I've always had great results with the various Braswell carbs that I've used over the years and this one was no exception.

Looks like the Braswell baseplate has the extended ears that fit a 4500 pattern. I put one of those baseplates on a hp1000. Pretty slick deal, just had to trim the 1/2" phenolic spacer on the outside where the accel pumps and throttle arm were rubbing. I can swap my 4500 out for the 4150 and don't have to change spacers (less variables).

Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Trick carb down 50 hp

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