I know this is engine tech area i,am posting this here because i don,t know if it will get notice in the other forms.
I just got and order in for a customer thru Engine Tech from Competion Products cust. picks it up and returns it today stateing he can get it from them cheaper then i,am selling it to him for.(I only marked the parts up 10%)I go to there site and low and behold they are selling it to the public for what me or you are paying for it.
I get the feeling these companys have cut there margin so thin that they now need to sell to the public and by volume.How are we as engine builders going to deal with this as more and more companys go this route and you have all these little bedroom companys spring up and selling below what we pay for it.
I feel this needs to be addressed at the PRI show some how to let these companys know what they have done to there loyal customers that buy direct from them and what they are doing to our business.They have also made buy ins so far out of reach for new shops that you may only be abel to buy in to 1 company.I,am at the point that i do not want to sell any more parts at all.
I would like to here other poeples thoughts on this and what we could do to help our selfs.I have some of my owen ides that i learned in the furniture business.But it will take a group of us.
Don if you need to move this to another place i under stand
Parts buying.
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Mike Rogers
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autorace
I think about this everyday, and it is a very big problem. I concentrate on labor and take what parts sales I can get. What parts were they? I would like to hear your experience from the furniture business. A friend was telling me comp products purchased one million valve seals in 3 different sizes. They sell them to many large companies, that most of us purchase from, and also to the end user. How can we compete with that.
Most manufacturers are selling to the public now because their dealers can't make enough money selling their products and are not selling enough. This way the manufacturer can make the full profit at retail price. The problem was the manufacturer failed to enforce their minimum advertised price levels and pricing wars began. This happens with internet companies who start a business with borrowed money, sell products at lower prices to make a profit not knowing how much profit they need to make to stay in business, and then go out of business in two years. So the only thing they accomplished was bringing down pricing and going out of business. I watch many of these companies pricing policies and watch them go out of business. You just never know how much money they are starting with and how long they will last.
There was a big problem recently with Eagle rods and cranks on ebay. There were a few companies advertising at jobber price when many machine shops purchase at jobber. When this happens you lose your motivation to sell that product.
Most manufacturers are selling to the public now because their dealers can't make enough money selling their products and are not selling enough. This way the manufacturer can make the full profit at retail price. The problem was the manufacturer failed to enforce their minimum advertised price levels and pricing wars began. This happens with internet companies who start a business with borrowed money, sell products at lower prices to make a profit not knowing how much profit they need to make to stay in business, and then go out of business in two years. So the only thing they accomplished was bringing down pricing and going out of business. I watch many of these companies pricing policies and watch them go out of business. You just never know how much money they are starting with and how long they will last.
There was a big problem recently with Eagle rods and cranks on ebay. There were a few companies advertising at jobber price when many machine shops purchase at jobber. When this happens you lose your motivation to sell that product.
YOU CAN BLAME JEG'S AND SUMMIT FOR THE PROBLEMS ENGINE BUILDERS HAVE ENCOUNTERED IN PRICING THEIR PARTS SALES...THEY HAVE VIRTUALLY ELIMINATED THREE TIER PRICING... BETTER KNOWN AS THE MIDDLE MAN...YOU BETTER HAVE ONE OF THEIR CATOLOGS IN FRONT OF YOU WHEN YOU QUOTE A PRICE TO A CUSTOMER BECAUSE YOU BETTER BELIEVE IF HE IS ANY KIND OF A GEARHEAD HE WILL HAVE ONE IN FRONT OF HIM! I BUY PARTS FROM ONLY A COUPLE OF SUPPLIERS AND I HAVE ONE OF THOSE CATALOGS IN FRONT OF ME WHEN I ORDER...THEY BETTER ALLOW ME SOME ROOM OR I TELL THEM AND EITHER THEY ADJUST OR I DON'T BUY...THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL COPY CAT COMPANIES EVOLVING LATELY DUE TO THEM ACQUIRING ENOUGH CAPITAL AND ALSO HAVE BEEN IMPORTING MORE CHINESE PARTS.....MY PARTS GUY TOLD ME JEG'S HAS $40 MILLION IN INVENTORY AND SUMMIT $45 MILLION!! WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE TO CLEVER TO COMPETE WITH THAT!!......GOODLUCK , BOB
stand on it!
I don't really think it's the problem of the retailers. They are just using capitalism to their best advantage. If you worked hard and were successful at selling only parts, then you too could be the next Jegs or Summit or whatever.If you truly want price protection you need to talk to the manufacturing people. Mr G. did it a few years ago to Summit. They told them to sell at retail price or they wouldn't sell them anything.Summit told them to take a hike, so they did.If all the suppliers did this, the Summit's of the world wouldn't have a choice.They couldn't sell anything because everyone would cut them off for undercutting the small guy.The problem is that the suppliers won't protect pricing because the mail order guys are just to big of a perchasing percentage.Nobody wants to take a mulit million dollar hit for the sake of the little guy. The small mom and pop shops will still buy what they are buying now, and complain about it, but they will still buy.You have to. You don't have a choice. Everyone in the business knows this so nothing will ever change. All you can hope for is that you can find some decent wherehouses that will treat you fair and just take what you can get.
The other option is tell everyone that you don't sell parts.You sell service as well as parts. If they want to buy from the big mail order guys, that's fine, but when they have a problem with THEIR parts in THEIR motor, then its THEIR problem. Someone spending thousands on a motor project will either see the value in buy something from you, that you stand behind and install or they won't. Either way you won't have to worry. You don't lose money by spending time having to order parts that you only make 10% on, or you actually make enough to make it worth your time and you have also convinced your customer that it was the correct decision to make, instilling more good will with your customer base. Just some thoughts.
shawn
The other option is tell everyone that you don't sell parts.You sell service as well as parts. If they want to buy from the big mail order guys, that's fine, but when they have a problem with THEIR parts in THEIR motor, then its THEIR problem. Someone spending thousands on a motor project will either see the value in buy something from you, that you stand behind and install or they won't. Either way you won't have to worry. You don't lose money by spending time having to order parts that you only make 10% on, or you actually make enough to make it worth your time and you have also convinced your customer that it was the correct decision to make, instilling more good will with your customer base. Just some thoughts.
shawn
When I am confronted by this situation I usually mark up any labor connected with parts not purchased from me .If they came to you specifically for parts no labor its probably not worth your time any ways.I guess Summit has a business deal where you can get ten off most products.And I have found that my local outlets have been matching prices if not beating most .The EBAY deal is hard to compete with but when people bring me stuff from somewhere else for something Im working on I will drill them on any labor .
Wow,. .. what a can of worms this is, ..
Yep, .. Ebay is THE problem. People are selling on there for less then
my local warehouse BUYS for!, .. and the manufacturers let this happen.
I have several manufacturers I will not buy parts from or use their parts
because they don't protect any of us, .. machine shop, Jegs, .. anybody.
Cylinder heads are a big issue for me of course. Brodix wants a $15K
buy in yet I can buy them off of Ebay for UNDER Jobber. So just what was
that buy in for?? Dart, .. don't even what to go there, .. $50K buy in, .. under
jobber price at most places.
As a cylinder head guy I've got a bit of an ace in the hole, .. in that most people
end up at my shop because the mail order parts didn't make the power
expected or they are looking for the labor services I provide,
.. but if someone comes to me to build a new set of heads
but wants to go to the mail order place to save $100, .. I'll suggest they may
not be in the right shop.
It's a fine line to walk as I like to treat my customers like old friends
and provide great service.
A can of worms, .. ..
Curtis
Yep, .. Ebay is THE problem. People are selling on there for less then
my local warehouse BUYS for!, .. and the manufacturers let this happen.
I have several manufacturers I will not buy parts from or use their parts
because they don't protect any of us, .. machine shop, Jegs, .. anybody.
Cylinder heads are a big issue for me of course. Brodix wants a $15K
buy in yet I can buy them off of Ebay for UNDER Jobber. So just what was
that buy in for?? Dart, .. don't even what to go there, .. $50K buy in, .. under
jobber price at most places.
As a cylinder head guy I've got a bit of an ace in the hole, .. in that most people
end up at my shop because the mail order parts didn't make the power
expected or they are looking for the labor services I provide,
.. but if someone comes to me to build a new set of heads
but wants to go to the mail order place to save $100, .. I'll suggest they may
not be in the right shop.
It's a fine line to walk as I like to treat my customers like old friends
and provide great service.
A can of worms, .. ..
Curtis
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
The automotive aftermarket is huge.There are thousands of lines that can are sold in a multi step market.Some simply cant be sold in a multi step.But many manufactures are guilty of allowing the prices of their parts to be cut so thin that few can compete anymore.
That said it is now beginning to dawn on many manufacturers that haveing their distribution dominated my just two or three huge players isnt really in their best intrests.So some are beginning to put some teeth into M.A.P. pricing.SuperChip was the ones who really got aggressive with it.Edge Products also followed suit.When Autotronics Controls ( MSD ) was sold their new owners took a real hard look at things and joined with the others on helping their distributors in maintaining some margins with some price protections.They also backed it up earlier this year when Jegs aggrreed to MSD's terms but Summit did not.... Summit was cut off ! After Summit realized that MSD was serious they backed off some.
At the 2004 PWA confrences and at the S.E.M.A. shows , priceing was a HUGE topic.Even some of the largest well known abusers started to begin to clean up their act...at least in part.... Others couldnt care less and will sell pretty much anyone direct.... But for the 1st time in decades I have seen actuall movement by various manufactures in helpping to control this out of control situation.
If margins mean anything to you I do encourage you to bring these subjects up to your reps or at PRI or S.E.M.A or any of the other shows where you can discuss this subject.Keeping the subject going is annoying to them but this pressure is needed to help bring the market back to where a person can actually make a nickle..... The PRI show is probably most in need of this.
That said it is now beginning to dawn on many manufacturers that haveing their distribution dominated my just two or three huge players isnt really in their best intrests.So some are beginning to put some teeth into M.A.P. pricing.SuperChip was the ones who really got aggressive with it.Edge Products also followed suit.When Autotronics Controls ( MSD ) was sold their new owners took a real hard look at things and joined with the others on helping their distributors in maintaining some margins with some price protections.They also backed it up earlier this year when Jegs aggrreed to MSD's terms but Summit did not.... Summit was cut off ! After Summit realized that MSD was serious they backed off some.
At the 2004 PWA confrences and at the S.E.M.A. shows , priceing was a HUGE topic.Even some of the largest well known abusers started to begin to clean up their act...at least in part.... Others couldnt care less and will sell pretty much anyone direct.... But for the 1st time in decades I have seen actuall movement by various manufactures in helpping to control this out of control situation.
If margins mean anything to you I do encourage you to bring these subjects up to your reps or at PRI or S.E.M.A or any of the other shows where you can discuss this subject.Keeping the subject going is annoying to them but this pressure is needed to help bring the market back to where a person can actually make a nickle..... The PRI show is probably most in need of this.
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SStrokerAce
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This is actually a good topic.
I agree on a lot of this, one thing I do is quote a project with me suppling the parts and then I tell them how much it will be without me suplying the parts, which is usually my profit on the big things plus all the labor. I don't care if you buy gaskets and small things from another source but if I'm not making the money on the big stuff then I'm going to get it someplace else because there is just not enough money in the whole motor for what I put into it period. If you scare a customer away doing this it's probably a good thing that you don't have that bussiness.
The thing that gets me is that some customers get that your expertise and knowledge is worth something and some just want to save $50. That gets on my neves sometimes because you help a guy out but he doesn't pay you for that, good thing is the older your customers get the more they realize that your help and knowledge is worth way more than their extra $50 so they spend the money with you.... people have different value systems, some respect knowledge like that of a doctor or lawyer some only care about the cost of things.
One other thing I do is offer a "discount" on a part if they buy the rest of the parts along with it. For example a camshaft and matching valve springs. I'll add the profit I make on the springs to the price of the cam if they only buy the cam, so either way I make the same money. It's one way to get the customer to have the exact parts they need to work as a system. Hell I'll only install and degree in a cam with certain timing chains that I sell as well, or the extra time it takes me to degree the cam in I have to charge the customer for anyways.
As for Jegs and Summit, these guys don't play around. A few people I know in the magazine business say they come to play when it's negotiation time for ads, sponsorship etc... They really are ruthless, 1% to them is a large sum of profit so you have to believe they fight for that.
Bret
I agree on a lot of this, one thing I do is quote a project with me suppling the parts and then I tell them how much it will be without me suplying the parts, which is usually my profit on the big things plus all the labor. I don't care if you buy gaskets and small things from another source but if I'm not making the money on the big stuff then I'm going to get it someplace else because there is just not enough money in the whole motor for what I put into it period. If you scare a customer away doing this it's probably a good thing that you don't have that bussiness.
The thing that gets me is that some customers get that your expertise and knowledge is worth something and some just want to save $50. That gets on my neves sometimes because you help a guy out but he doesn't pay you for that, good thing is the older your customers get the more they realize that your help and knowledge is worth way more than their extra $50 so they spend the money with you.... people have different value systems, some respect knowledge like that of a doctor or lawyer some only care about the cost of things.
One other thing I do is offer a "discount" on a part if they buy the rest of the parts along with it. For example a camshaft and matching valve springs. I'll add the profit I make on the springs to the price of the cam if they only buy the cam, so either way I make the same money. It's one way to get the customer to have the exact parts they need to work as a system. Hell I'll only install and degree in a cam with certain timing chains that I sell as well, or the extra time it takes me to degree the cam in I have to charge the customer for anyways.
As for Jegs and Summit, these guys don't play around. A few people I know in the magazine business say they come to play when it's negotiation time for ads, sponsorship etc... They really are ruthless, 1% to them is a large sum of profit so you have to believe they fight for that.
Bret
One of the factors that also brought Summit and Jegs back in line to some very small degree has been the internet sales and Ebay sales. They were happy when they were the cheapest out there.But Summit and Jegs have millions of dollars tied up in real estate and building and invetory.
When you get someone working out of their home with very little overhead and haveing the manufacturer dropship product to thier customers customer... then you have someone with no inventory costs.. no insurance , no employee costs ect ect.... then these people become the low cost provider.... that got Summit and Jegs attention.... they didnt like the fact that they were no longer the lowest cost guy in town..... fortunetly many manufacturers has wised up and stopped the practice.... but there still are other manufacturers who just dont care and will sell anyone... ligetimate or not.
We get internet site places wanting us to sell to them quite often... and we wont do this.It's not right for say an auto parts store or machine shop who has a huge commitment involved to then go ahead and to sell to someone at the same price with no real commitment who will then force the other legitiment places out of the market for that product.
The old distribution channels have been distorted so much that it's getting harder and harder to verify who is legit anymore.... but it should be in all manufacturers , WD's , Chain Stores , Mass Merchandisers and all other methods of distribution intrest to verify...... I wish it were done more often.
When you get someone working out of their home with very little overhead and haveing the manufacturer dropship product to thier customers customer... then you have someone with no inventory costs.. no insurance , no employee costs ect ect.... then these people become the low cost provider.... that got Summit and Jegs attention.... they didnt like the fact that they were no longer the lowest cost guy in town..... fortunetly many manufacturers has wised up and stopped the practice.... but there still are other manufacturers who just dont care and will sell anyone... ligetimate or not.
We get internet site places wanting us to sell to them quite often... and we wont do this.It's not right for say an auto parts store or machine shop who has a huge commitment involved to then go ahead and to sell to someone at the same price with no real commitment who will then force the other legitiment places out of the market for that product.
The old distribution channels have been distorted so much that it's getting harder and harder to verify who is legit anymore.... but it should be in all manufacturers , WD's , Chain Stores , Mass Merchandisers and all other methods of distribution intrest to verify...... I wish it were done more often.
This is one of those areas that test me becuse I am just a small shop owner and often my suppliers prices are very close to what the general public can buy at through the big discount sellers or off the internet. I've been around this game long enough to remember when some of the big sellers and manufacturers were starting out in their garages. I'll give credit where it's due, they worked hard and developed good products that are still in use today.
During one of the periods in my life when I had time and money to take a few courses at Fenn-Marshall, Cleveland State, or Pitt, I ran across topics called "economy of scale", and the "law of diminishing returns". If you can make one part in a day and sell it for a profit, that is good. If you can tool up, and combine operations, and you can make make a hundred of them in a day, you make more money. If making more parts means buying more material and getting truckload discounts, you make more money. At this point you may need to cut the price to make the item easier to sell due to competition from others who see what you're doing, and want a piece of the action. Then it hits a point where the infrastructure you need to assemble to handle all of the extra production starts eating into your profit per unit. There is a point where it is all about the numbers.Back in the day we didn't have computers and CNC, but we had screw machines, Bullards, turret lathes, multi head Bridgeports, etc. and good machinists could get a lot done (relatively speaking).
At some point I decided to pursue my business as a craft, and leave mass production to the people who have access to the capital and talent to make it happen.
Seen a lot of different kinds of customers from the penny pinchers to the spendthrifts. There's guys who will ask a million questions and never spend a cent, and there are guys who tell you what they want to accomplish and say do the best you can, call 'em when it's done. Then there's the guys who call every 5 minutes wanting to know "Is it done yet?" Even had one guy call me while I was laid up in the hospital, wanting to know when his engine would be done! Would've served him right if I'd died that time!
One guy had me bore his block, and fit the 12:1 pistons, fit the rods and mains, but he wanted to save a buck by assembling the engine himself. He had the car towed to the shop because he couldn't find a starter that would turn it over. He put the pistons in backwards, domes were hitting the quench!
And then there's the Chinese knockoff parts. Some one brought me a set of phony Chinese Carillo Rods. Scary place to try using a cheap part! So far the tip-off has been the packaging, wierd looking boxes. I refused to use them.
My approach is that I'm offering expertise, craftmanship, and personalized service. I don't try to compete with the low price high volume catalog stores. If a guy doesn't understand the difference between my parts and services and what he can get cheaper by mail order or online, then I explain that he's not my customer and wish him luck.
During one of the periods in my life when I had time and money to take a few courses at Fenn-Marshall, Cleveland State, or Pitt, I ran across topics called "economy of scale", and the "law of diminishing returns". If you can make one part in a day and sell it for a profit, that is good. If you can tool up, and combine operations, and you can make make a hundred of them in a day, you make more money. If making more parts means buying more material and getting truckload discounts, you make more money. At this point you may need to cut the price to make the item easier to sell due to competition from others who see what you're doing, and want a piece of the action. Then it hits a point where the infrastructure you need to assemble to handle all of the extra production starts eating into your profit per unit. There is a point where it is all about the numbers.Back in the day we didn't have computers and CNC, but we had screw machines, Bullards, turret lathes, multi head Bridgeports, etc. and good machinists could get a lot done (relatively speaking).
At some point I decided to pursue my business as a craft, and leave mass production to the people who have access to the capital and talent to make it happen.
Seen a lot of different kinds of customers from the penny pinchers to the spendthrifts. There's guys who will ask a million questions and never spend a cent, and there are guys who tell you what they want to accomplish and say do the best you can, call 'em when it's done. Then there's the guys who call every 5 minutes wanting to know "Is it done yet?" Even had one guy call me while I was laid up in the hospital, wanting to know when his engine would be done! Would've served him right if I'd died that time!
One guy had me bore his block, and fit the 12:1 pistons, fit the rods and mains, but he wanted to save a buck by assembling the engine himself. He had the car towed to the shop because he couldn't find a starter that would turn it over. He put the pistons in backwards, domes were hitting the quench!
And then there's the Chinese knockoff parts. Some one brought me a set of phony Chinese Carillo Rods. Scary place to try using a cheap part! So far the tip-off has been the packaging, wierd looking boxes. I refused to use them.
My approach is that I'm offering expertise, craftmanship, and personalized service. I don't try to compete with the low price high volume catalog stores. If a guy doesn't understand the difference between my parts and services and what he can get cheaper by mail order or online, then I explain that he's not my customer and wish him luck.
Jim McMahon
Heads1st
http://www.heads1st.com/
Heads1st
http://www.heads1st.com/
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SStrokerAce
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Jim,gofaster wrote:
At some point I decided to pursue my business as a craft, and leave mass production to the people who have access to the capital and talent to make it happen.
Seen a lot of different kinds of customers from the penny pinchers to the spendthrifts. There's guys who will ask a million questions and never spend a cent, and there are guys who tell you what they want to accomplish and say do the best you can, call 'em when it's done. Then there's the guys who call every 5 minutes wanting to know "Is it done yet?" Even had one guy call me while I was laid up in the hospital, wanting to know when his engine would be done! Would've served him right if I'd died that time!
One guy had me bore his block, and fit the 12:1 pistons, fit the rods and mains, but he wanted to save a buck by assembling the engine himself. He had the car towed to the shop because he couldn't find a starter that would turn it over. He put the pistons in backwards, domes were hitting the quench!
My approach is that I'm offering expertise, craftmanship, and personalized service. I don't try to compete with the low price high volume catalog stores. If a guy doesn't understand the difference between my parts and services and what he can get cheaper by mail order or online, then I explain that he's not my customer and wish him luck.
That was great! I can't agree more
The sections I left in the quote are my favorite by far!
Bret
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Grocerius Maximus
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Ah yes, the www.MyDormroom.com syndrome.
Drop-ship THIS mother(*&^*&%&^%!!!!!!
It is a self-correcting problem, but it will hurt for a few years.
Its a great opportunity to have fun and vent steam on the phone if you do tech support for complex electronics like ECU's. Hard parts there's not much you can do.
The guy that buys an ECU, set of injectors, bunch of hard parts off ebay and has X, Y, and Z install them cheap, it doesn't run for squat, and wants you to fix it, is a recipe for profit margin disaster. You'll end up married to it and every problem from that point will be YOUR fault. Avoid these e-car builders like the plague, they ain't worth the time.
One rule I try to live by- If the engine/trans in a car has 4 different colors of silicone on it, and has issues, I won't touch it unless the whole thing is getting roundfiled and start from ground zero again. Too many chef's in the soup is also grounds for profit margin disaster.
Drop-ship THIS mother(*&^*&%&^%!!!!!!
It is a self-correcting problem, but it will hurt for a few years.
Its a great opportunity to have fun and vent steam on the phone if you do tech support for complex electronics like ECU's. Hard parts there's not much you can do.
The guy that buys an ECU, set of injectors, bunch of hard parts off ebay and has X, Y, and Z install them cheap, it doesn't run for squat, and wants you to fix it, is a recipe for profit margin disaster. You'll end up married to it and every problem from that point will be YOUR fault. Avoid these e-car builders like the plague, they ain't worth the time.
One rule I try to live by- If the engine/trans in a car has 4 different colors of silicone on it, and has issues, I won't touch it unless the whole thing is getting roundfiled and start from ground zero again. Too many chef's in the soup is also grounds for profit margin disaster.
prices
Mike, It's funny you bring this up... After i hung up with you wednesday i had a girl walk into my shop with a summit catalog, She had a trick flow ad circled and asked me how much to build a engine if she bought all the parts????
I could feel my neck getting red..... But i took a deep breeath and talked her through it. I actually think i got the total job parts and all, Plus the guy with her is getting me to build one for him....
So i guess some people just do not realize what is happening by them buying parts and bringing them to you. But that opens another can because i took 2 hours talking to her and the guy explaining that there bargin really isn't one... Who pays for that?????
I personally have found that the bargin shoppers never make good customers, but i do realize we all need as many customers as we can get. For me as i look into it,, those bargin guys always wind up costing me money so it's better not to get the job at all.....
I am like alot of others i am a one man show and cannot afford the big buy- in's. I just don't move enough product. I sell what parts i can at as much as i can make on them,or as little as i can make on them.... And try to make it up on the service end of things... But even that is hard with 5 other shops with-in a 5 mile radius of me working for free.........
I guess short of the manufacturers changing there pricing structure we are going to have to figure a way around it... But i don't know what that way is?????
One thing, It really makes you thankful for the customers that walk into the shop tell you what they want and pay you when your done ...no questions asked!!!!
keith
I could feel my neck getting red..... But i took a deep breeath and talked her through it. I actually think i got the total job parts and all, Plus the guy with her is getting me to build one for him....
So i guess some people just do not realize what is happening by them buying parts and bringing them to you. But that opens another can because i took 2 hours talking to her and the guy explaining that there bargin really isn't one... Who pays for that?????
I personally have found that the bargin shoppers never make good customers, but i do realize we all need as many customers as we can get. For me as i look into it,, those bargin guys always wind up costing me money so it's better not to get the job at all.....
I am like alot of others i am a one man show and cannot afford the big buy- in's. I just don't move enough product. I sell what parts i can at as much as i can make on them,or as little as i can make on them.... And try to make it up on the service end of things... But even that is hard with 5 other shops with-in a 5 mile radius of me working for free.........
I guess short of the manufacturers changing there pricing structure we are going to have to figure a way around it... But i don't know what that way is?????
One thing, It really makes you thankful for the customers that walk into the shop tell you what they want and pay you when your done ...no questions asked!!!!
keith
“If I hit you with this you’re going to be numb, that’s why they call them numb-chucks “Si Robertson
This is a very good topic. I've been in the automotive field for many years doing repairs as well as rebuilding/machining motors.
The price shoppers are everywhere, I deal with customers all the time saying they can order their parts online or go to the local chain auto parts store and get their belts or hoses, alternators etc cheaper then what I sell them for. I also have to deal with the summit and jegs shoppers also when it comes to eng internals and heads.
I have 2 seperate labor prices I use for these types. If you supply the parts my base labor is 95.00 an hr. min 2 hr charge. If the part is wrong or bad or just isn't right you will pay me again to fix the problem. Either way if you supply the parts all work comes with a 50/50 warranty (if it breaks you own both 1/2's ) I've had 2 customers learn real quick it gets expensive when you bring me the wrong parts.
If I supply the parts then the labor is my std labor hr plus parts. Which is a big drop from the 95.00 an hr. Ive had some people complain about the big labor price difference but I just explain it this way. My parts mark up pays my utilities and phone bill. If I cant make the extra $ over the part costs then I need to recover my loss by my labor charge to keep the business open. Keeping an old copy of my electric bill sitting on the desk helps. most people choke when they see a 300.00 elec. bill in this area.
The price shoppers are everywhere, I deal with customers all the time saying they can order their parts online or go to the local chain auto parts store and get their belts or hoses, alternators etc cheaper then what I sell them for. I also have to deal with the summit and jegs shoppers also when it comes to eng internals and heads.
I have 2 seperate labor prices I use for these types. If you supply the parts my base labor is 95.00 an hr. min 2 hr charge. If the part is wrong or bad or just isn't right you will pay me again to fix the problem. Either way if you supply the parts all work comes with a 50/50 warranty (if it breaks you own both 1/2's ) I've had 2 customers learn real quick it gets expensive when you bring me the wrong parts.
If I supply the parts then the labor is my std labor hr plus parts. Which is a big drop from the 95.00 an hr. Ive had some people complain about the big labor price difference but I just explain it this way. My parts mark up pays my utilities and phone bill. If I cant make the extra $ over the part costs then I need to recover my loss by my labor charge to keep the business open. Keeping an old copy of my electric bill sitting on the desk helps. most people choke when they see a 300.00 elec. bill in this area.