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ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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BrazilianZ28Camaro
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

GLHS60 wrote:
Around 1972 I was working in an automotive machine shop assembling Engines and the machinists often commented the 1968 and newer model year SBCs were "softer".

Especially the cylinder head guys who reamed the valve guides for what I think were 5000 series liners.

Anecdotal for sure but agrees with what you reported.

Thanks
Randy
I have a similar experience.

A few years ago I was milling a set of SBC 283 #896 powerpac heads to install rocker arm studs. Despite the fact both heads had the same casting number from 67-68 ( If my memory is right), one was harder to mill than the other.

That was a pretty noticeable difference by the tool cutting sound, for those who are used to mill.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by dave brode »

Bob Hollinshead wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:19 am From Jenkin's book The Chevrolet Racing Engine: page 8, for racing use it is valuable to select a block that is "hard". There is some variation in the production casting material, and we often use a portable Brinell tester to find "hard" blocks. Page 6. The best factory block casting to obtain is part number 3970016. This case has the thick main webs and 4-bolt caps for added crankshaft support.
"3970016" That's the part # for an over the counter block that he felt was the best at the time.

Does anyone know if this block was used in production vehicles also? If so, do you know the casting number on this block?

Thanks.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by PackardV8 »

BrazilianZ28Camaro wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:27 pm A few years ago I was milling a set of SBC 283 #896 powerpac heads to install rocker arm studs. Despite the fact both heads had the same casting number from 67-68 ( If my memory is right), one was harder to mill than the other.

That was a pretty noticeable difference by the tool cutting sound, for those who are used to mill.
There aren't many porting iron heads these days, but they'll be able to confirm there are harder and softer areas in the same head casting. The cooling rate caused that. Thicker sections and interior sections don't cool as rapidly as thinner/exterior sections.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by Mark O'Neal »

And 50 years later.....the discussion is the same......

Next up...."are all 010 blocks 4 bolt mains?"...... :lol: :lol:
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by midnightbluS10 »

High nickel blocks are a myth and always have been. Especially the 010 connection.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by lance flake »

Makes em easy to sell when somebody wants one though! Especially when they think with 4 bolt mains and came from a corvette makes it better!! lol
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by 77cruiser »

Wish I would've gotten the Corvette block instead of the Dart. :)
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by trmnatr »

BLOCKMAN wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:33 pm I sonic test every OEM GM block that goes through my shops and according the sonic velocity I don't see and difference in material make. Their usually high 1800's. The Chinese Dart look a like block I believe was around 1300 and PBM was calling those blocks High Density blocks, You can see where those went.

The 010 blocks have different webbing then the 010/020 blocks the 010/020 in most cases have the oil galley above the timing cover and the main webbing is better with those blocks.
Carl, I have an 010/020 marked 010 with heavier duty main webbing with"2482" nodular caps but does not have the tapped port in the front however the cylinder wall thickness was much thicker than a typical SBC block. My grandfather used to have a story on those 010/020 blocks, and he did work for GM & he did all engine, transmission and rear end rebuilds when GM dealers rebuilt them with the needed parts plus he did a lot of street race stuff along with drag race stuff. How true it was IDK but made sense. He stated the GM 010/020 block came in 1969 302 and 1970 LT1 due to the nodular caps, thicker main webbing and had a higher nickel so it was in these applications because both engines were available in cars as a "race package" with an off road camshaft etc and the short blocks were identical from the production street cars to off road ordered cars. Makes sense, although not saying its true. I have seen the same block with DZ on the deck and it was also an 010/020. Also every 010/020 with 2482 main caps has always been more of a silver-ish color, so who knows wtf they did Lol [-o<
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by pdq67 »

I haven't read this whole thread, BUT do want to ask what cast-iron alloy were the old Cad V-8 blocks made out of?

I ask because I seem to recall that they could have over 100,000 miles on them and not have much, if any ridge??

This tells me that Cad blocks were harder than our beloved SBC's.

And I was told by some foundry guys that poured cast-iron metal that had a little Chrome in the base metal made the cast-iron harder to machine so this drove up finished part costs.

The Chrome came from the old AP Green Co's JADE-PAK 88-P plastic ram mix that was 88 percent tabular alumina, 10 percent paint pigment chromic oxide and the balance pure phosphoric acid as a low temperature binder. I helped install it in a vertical tilt channel induction furnace melting malleable-iron at Galva Foundry years ago.

JP-88-P was the best molten iron metal refractory made, IMHO!!! Dropped because of the EPA and it containingchrome.

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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by trmnatr »

BLOCKMAN wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:57 am
trmnatr wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:12 am
BLOCKMAN wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:33 pm I sonic test every OEM GM block that goes through my shops and according the sonic velocity I don't see and difference in material make. Their usually high 1800's. The Chinese Dart look a like block I believe was around 1300 and PBM was calling those blocks High Density blocks, You can see where those went.

The 010 blocks have different webbing then the 010/020 blocks the 010/020 in most cases have the oil galley above the timing cover and the main webbing is better with those blocks.
Carl, I have an 010/020 marked 010 with heavier duty main webbing with"2482" nodular caps but does not have the tapped port in the front however the cylinder wall thickness was much thicker than a typical SBC block. My grandfather used to have a story on those 010/020 blocks, and he did work for GM & he did all engine, transmission and rear end rebuilds when GM dealers rebuilt them with the needed parts plus he did a lot of street race stuff along with drag race stuff. How true it was IDK but made sense. He stated the GM 010/020 block came in 1969 302 and 1970 LT1 due to the nodular caps, thicker main webbing and had a higher nickel so it was in these applications because both engines were available in cars as a "race package" with an off road camshaft etc and the short blocks were identical from the production street cars to off road ordered cars. Makes sense, although not saying its true. I have seen the same block with DZ on the deck and it was also an 010/020. Also every 010/020 with 2482 main caps has always been more of a silver-ish color, so who knows wtf they did Lol [-o<
I don't see any difference in material make up between the 010 blocks over the 010/020 blocks, As stated the 010/020 do have a better main webbing and the cylinder thickness seems to be the same with both blocks, The older blocks seem to fail more sonic tests over the late 880 blocks, Now we have a lot better tooling then 40 years ago.
I don’t doubt that, the 880 is a clean casting. Putting a 1 piece rear main 880 block motor together now with aluminum heads (GM), hot cam and higher compression.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by rebelrouser »

Not about SBC blocks, but there is a lot of urban myths about chrysler big blocks as well, the rumor is any cast newer than 1972 is thinner. link to research 440 source did. The newer blocks are actually better than the old ones. I also purchased a hardness tester, newer block are harder as well. The other myth on chrysler block was the tooling number, which was supposed to tell how many times the mold had been reconditioned, smaller number better block, seems that does not always work out as well.


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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by levisnteeshirt »

\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ :---) ](*,)

YES ! ,, They all came out of vettes too !!
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by peejay »

pdq67 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:27 am I haven't read this whole thread, BUT do want to ask what cast-iron alloy were the old Cad V-8 blocks made out of?

I ask because I seem to recall that they could have over 100,000 miles on them and not have much, if any ridge??

This tells me that Cad blocks were harder than our beloved SBC's.
It could also mean that the Cad motors were kept in tune better. Less ring wash means less cylinder wear.

I've pulled 400k mile old engines that had no ridge whatsoever. As long as the blocks aren't cast out of peanut butter, keeping it in tune is more important. In hindsight, Caddys also probably had the advantage of rarely having to go into power enrichment, just idle and cruise around all day.


One of the old guys who I used to know was a Studebaker dealer. (I guess he still has a warehouse full of Avanti parts, new in paper wrapping! He better sell that stuff soon before it's too weird to be valuable) He said that he used to have a Hudson block hanging over the doorway and you could ring it like a bell because Hudson blocks were not iron, they were steel.
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Re: ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

Post by midnightbluS10 »

I don't think that's true about Hudson. You can fine documentation about them casting engine blocks, how they did it, etc...so I'd say they had cast iron blocks just like everybody else.

I've searched for about a half hour and have found no evidence to the contrary.

According to this book from June 1914, they were casting blocks at the time.

https://books.google.com/books?id=KCsfA ... on&f=false
The motor now has its cylinders cast in a block...


and it continues below that. I could be wrong. It's happened before lol. I'm not seeing anything confirming they had steel engine blocks, though.

According to this, they had cast iron blocks in 1912. Probably even earlier than that.

https://www.conceptcarz.com/s15571/hudson-model-33.aspx
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