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Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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blaktopr
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by blaktopr »

John, light placement, dye amounts plus others will effect what you see, including the camera. Here are two pics, one good one bad of the same port. First one was done about a month ago, the second today. Testing was done drawing into the intake port. Liquid dispersed through a nozzle with clay radius. Taking pics and vids can be stressful when the conditions change. Take note on what you did to be able to recreate it next time.
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Chris Sikorski
blaktopr
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by blaktopr »

Here is the bad. I think the dye amounts were a little off. Wasn't lighting things up. You begin to walk a fine line between depression amount and dye amounts.
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Jason G
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Jason G »

A Atwood wrote:Would be cool to dyno an engine back to back with those 235s in stock form and then grind out the vane and retest.

ARN
Doesn't work that way. The vane helps in the current port configuration. If you remove it, you are going to have to fix the port upstream as well to see the true benefit.

Jason G.
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by T-flow »

Your saying, the pinch will need to be fixed? I have always thought they had a small pinch and this vane was the crutch sorta speak.
Still would like to know what the fps are in this port?
Thanks for all the info. guy's. What kinda power are you making with this head VS. the old style or other heads?

Thanks, T-flow
T-flow Cylinder Heads
www.tflowheads.com
Cylinder Head Works Inc.

Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Cylinder Head Works Inc. »

blaktopr wrote:John, light placement, dye amounts plus others will effect what you see, including the camera. Here are two pics, one good one bad of the same port. First one was done about a month ago, the second today. Testing was done drawing into the intake port. Liquid dispersed through a nozzle with clay radius. Taking pics and vids can be stressful when the conditions change. Take note on what you did to be able to recreate it next time.
Interesting pics is this a Pontiac or BB Ford head, Where can I get some of the die fluid ??
blaktopr
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by blaktopr »

Its a Pontiac.

Here is the dye. Get the 1 pint, goes a long way.
http://www.riskreactor.com/mm5/merchant ... _Code=UVOZ

Pm me if you have any questions.
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by John W »

T-flow wrote:
Still would like to know what the fps are in this port?
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showt ... ost3377429
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5535/chevellehmplf4.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://g.imageshack.us/img352/chevellehmplf4.jpg/1/][img]http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/chevellehmplf4.jpg/1/w320.png[/img][/url]
blaktopr
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by blaktopr »

blaktopr wrote:Its a Pontiac.

Here is the dye. Get the 1 pint, goes a long way.
http://www.riskreactor.com/mm5/merchant ... _Code=UVOZ

Pm me if you have any questions.
I'm such a dumb ass with too much on my mind. Not pint, ONE ounce bottle. Sorry.
Chris Sikorski
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

revolutionary wrote:These are from the March 2009 issue of PHR story on our 327 using AFR 210 heads.

Image
Note the fuel pattern on the piston. very pronounced. On the runners I just ran a cartridge roll over the vane and didn't modify it at all. I believe the fuel was washing though pretty seriously which would explain why it wanted so much gas. Best power at .45bsfc and 37 degrees timing.
I don't like the carbon pattern on the piston very much. I typically install my wings in-line with the port. That's given me my best results.

Both of these heads have wings in-line with the port. The first one has good oil control, the second one has very light oil rings and a vacuum pump, so it is not carboning as well as it would with perfect oil control.

Image
Image

Here are a couple of pics with valves out. The first one has a gentle wing, more like a bump, behind the guide. That is what is in the head in the first pic above. The second head above has a much more pronounced wing, but in the same place. The second pic below is of a fast 5.3 LS1 head that was on a 9.90 408 Camaro, full weight, like 3500 pounds, on pump gas. It looks terrible because the engine had over 500 runs on it, so it was oiling some, preventing carbon build up. But the dark spot begind the guide is where I put a wing. All I'm doing is filling in dead area. That 5.3 head does hot have a wing behind the guide, but if I were to put one in, it would be where the port is stained right behind the guide. I see no reason to put a curly cue wing right in the middle of a high velocity portion of a port and create air/fuel separation. Also, I don't particularly care what a wing does at 28" on a flow bench. That doesn't mean much to me as the port sees much higher velocity going down the track. As long as I'm getting fuel at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock on a head that has been run I'm pretty pleased.
Image
Image
automotive breath
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by automotive breath »

Image

I don't like the carbon pattern on that piston either, too wet.

Here's what I'm seeing...

High compression 355

Image

Pump gas 383 (blistering due to detonation? Needs need more octane?)

Image

High compression 383

Image
GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Automotive Breath, your stuff is looking pretty good to me.
Cylinder Head Works Inc.

Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Cylinder Head Works Inc. »

GregGood wrote:I see no reason to put a curly cue wing right in the middle of a high velocity portion of a port and create air/fuel separation. Also, I don't particularly care what a wing does at 28" on a flow bench.
So my impression of Speed talk is" Public Forum " I have been reading and watching all the activity for the last 5 years, the variety of OPINIONS.......is great!! We can all take some knowledge and other peoples experience and relate them to our own experience, as well as learn something NEW. I am Here to represent my Company......and SHARE the knowledge I have acquired over 20 Years and 26000 hours of Flow testing in a Professional Manor, Just like Tony Mamo Of AFR, Darin Morgan of Pro-Filer, Curtis Boggs of RFD, how many Professionals do I have to name..........Key word here is Professionals!!!

greggood your personal opinion is Un Called For, Speed Talk is not your personal Sand Box for opinionated slander, keep the Negative comments to yourself, but if it makes you feel good... Private Message Me, or Fly up to Canada here in Edmonton stand toe to toe and SLAM my Intelligence...!!!

As for Tony Mamo's "curley cue wing" for a 23 degree head....... he is on to something!!!! I've been researching this concept for 5 years and to see Tony thinking out of the Box and pushing it into production into the main stream World..........GREAT.

GregGood Your doing a FINE JOB Representing http://www.SAMracing.com in a Professional Manor!!!!

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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by lun40119 »

That vane may help dry flow numbers, but my opinion is it may cause troubles with wet flow, I tried to start a conversation with Tony about this once, but it didn't get very far. I can't see it lasting very long on McAfee's wetflow bench. But that is just me.........................Joe Blow bracket racer :)
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by John W »

Cylinder Head Works Inc. wrote:
GregGood wrote:I see no reason to put a curly cue wing right in the middle of a high velocity portion of a port and create air/fuel separation. Also, I don't particularly care what a wing does at 28" on a flow bench.
So my impression of Speed talk is" Public Forum " I have been reading and watching all the activity for the last 5 years, the variety of OPINIONS.......is great!! We can all take some knowledge and other peoples experience and relate them to our own experience, as well as learn something NEW. I am Here to represent my Company......and SHARE the knowledge I have acquired over 20 Years and 26000 hours of Flow testing in a Professional Manor, Just like Tony Mamo Of AFR, Darin Morgan of Pro-Filer, Curtis Boggs of RFD, how many Professionals do I have to name..........Key word here is Professionals!!!

greggood your personal opinion is Un Called For, Speed Talk is not your personal Sand Box for opinionated slander, keep the Negative comments to yourself, but if it makes you feel good... Private Message Me, or Fly up to Canada here in Edmonton stand toe to toe and SLAM my Intelligence...!!!

Wow!!! I guess the variety of OPINIONS you've been "reading and watching" for the last 5 years are all good as long as they're not CONTRARY???? I don't see anything unprofessional about Mr.Good's professional opinion. Maybe you should have passed on that 4th pint, ehhh??????
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GREG K »

What you need to be able to do is relate all this wet flow,dry flow stuff.. to how it effects the vaporisation of the fuel load in the intake tract and in the cylinder.When you increase the size of the port,valve size or throat size you change the amount of vaporisation that the engine sees.This will have a great effect on the efficiency of the engine.
Its all well and good to do these cfm tests,but you need to be able to then carry on the testing to the live engine to make sure that what you do for clients individual parts increases the efficiency of the engine,not just the hp number.
When you change a cam,change the duration,change the size of the port,you effect the compression of the engine and the engines ability to effectively burn the cylinder.
Just because the car gets done the track faster,does not mean what you have done to the engines individual parts has made the engine better or more efficient.
Making more hp is not the hard part,what is hard to do is to increase the cylinders ability to burn the load more efficiently.
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