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Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Mr. John Yelick, that type of wing has been around for a lot longer than 5 years. It is old news. I saw it in the mid 1990's. I have seen it either have no effect on power, or hurt power. I have yet to see it make more power.

I HAVE seen people put these wings in ports that were otherwise going violently turbulent at high lift. In my opinion, that is all it is, a flow bench gimmick that sells heads.

I'm sorry if you disagree with me, and I hardly think it rises to the level of a personal meet, but if get your wish you might not like the outcome.
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by ProPower engines »

[quote="
Image[/quote]

When you cut the ditch in the head did you have any back to back results that showed increased HP
The burn patteren is almost perfect and wanted to know how or if the results showed a difference in fuel consumption and if the EGT's were up when tested that would mean a more complete burn.
there was a thread a while back with more details of your test but I just could not find it.

I Am concidering a test with some dart iron heads for a limited Alky engine and with a slower burn rate of the fuel This looks like a plus for making more HP and better fuel mileage
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
ProPower engines
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by ProPower engines »

[quote="GregGood"]Mr. John Yelick, that type of wing has been around for a lot longer than 5 years. It is old news. I saw it in the mid 1990's. I have seen it either have no effect on power, or hurt power. I have yet to see it make more power.

On the topic of wings I have a Current (3months old from Dart direct) set of Dart platinum heads here now with that same wing in them. They are an Iron Head but we are still comparing apples to apples. Compared to the old iron eagles these heads are totally different.
Just got to ask what is the reason they do it?
It is to help the head flow better I am sure. I do not flow heads I would send them to John for that but the wing thing must work.Or they would not be doing it??

The Old Busch V6 heads sucked without them. Had those in the 80's and the wings were welded in after and made much better power. I just drove the thing and it was like night and day.
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Cylinder Head Works Inc. »

GregGood wrote:Mr. John Yelick, that type of wing has been around for a lot longer than 5 years. It is old news. I saw it in the mid 1990's. I have seen it either have no effect on power, or hurt power. I have yet to see it make more power.

I HAVE seen people put these wings in ports that were otherwise going violently turbulent at high lift. In my opinion, that is all it is, a flow bench gimmick that sells heads.

I'm sorry if you disagree with me, and I hardly think it rises to the level of a personal meet, but if get your wish you might not like the outcome.
Nice............I think we said our peace..............call it a Draw !!!

If you do come to Canada.........I'll buy the Beer and Tequila

John
GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Ok! That's more like it!

If you do a search on Darin's posts you'll find one where he states he lsot something on the order of 30 hp with those wings on a PS engine, but that's not really a fair comparison to everything else.

I didn't mean to take a dump on your thread. Sorry about that. I was just posting from experience. All the heads I've removed them from gained, but to be fair I also made other changes too.

If you do a search on my posts you'll see where I had a customer with some 18 degree Busch heads that had those wings. They were epoxied in. During a race several came out, we found it during a freshen up. We removed the remaining ones and the engine dyno'd and ran exactly the same. This was an expensive set of heads, but not a set that flowed or ran all that great with or without the wings. Good but not outstanding.

I don't like them, but I could be out in the weeds too. :mrgreen:
Last edited by GregGood on Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cylinder Head Works Inc.

Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Cylinder Head Works Inc. »

Where are you posting from Texas???
GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Yes, Houston.
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Cylinder Head Works Inc. »

We actually have alot in common Alberta and Texas. Black Gold ( Oil ) pick-up trucks, red neck attitude, good drinks, and Guns!!!!!!!!!!!
GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Oh yeah lots of guns.
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by maxracesoftware »

[quote="GregGood"I have seen it either have no effect on power, or hurt power. I have yet to see it make more power.
I HAVE seen people put these wings in ports that were otherwise going violently turbulent at high lift. In my opinion, that is all it is, a flow bench gimmick that sells heads.[/quote]

Greg , i found exactly the same results as you so far !

i have never yet seen it make "more" HP
with the Wing its pickup Flow 10-20+ CFM most times ... looks great on a FlowBench Test

i've seen that Wing loose a ton of HP with Methanol
it seems to really kill HP on methanol ,
on race gas its just about breaks even

tried the Wing in a ProStock Truck engine
PS- the "Bowl Wing" is very old news .... i have some really old Pics + Video of the Wing in old ProStock Truck Heads
i'm sure its was even "older trick" than when i first saw it and flowed it on the flowbench
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GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Larry, I guess air is the same in Texas as it is in Louisiana!

Hey, I had a customer bring me a set of your heads to surface the other day. I think they were 317 LSx castings. Anyway, nice port work!

When you engrave the heads with your name, is it done by hand? It looked the same as it did 25 years ago on some iron BBC heads (they were nice too).
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by maxracesoftware »

GregGood wrote:Larry, I guess air is the same in Texas as it is in Louisiana!

Hey, I had a customer bring me a set of your heads to surface the other day. I think they were 317 LSx castings. Anyway, nice port work!

When you engrave the heads with your name, is it done by hand? It looked the same as it did 25 years ago on some iron BBC heads (they were nice too).
Air's Air :)

i just use my Grinder to write ,
i get tired of writing it , but now some of my Customers want to see it .
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GregGood
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

No use in stopping now. It's a trademark of yours. :D
Tony Mamo @ AFR
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by Tony Mamo @ AFR »

Well Ive been quietly watching this thread for a few days and its obvious everyone has alot of opinions....that's to be expected.

But what I find peculiar is it also seems the obvious is being overlooked.

While individual theory, speculation, and opinions are great.....its hard to argue that real world results speak even louder.

The bottom line is the new AFR 235 head flows a bunch of air with a really strong area under the curve (as documented on numerous independent benches). They are also putting up well above average dyno numbers (for a non-raised runner 23' bolt on piece), and they seem to be performing very well at the track as well. So I ask you....whats not to like? And why does it seem the obvious fact these heads work and work well gets overlooked....its strange yet I find it entertaining in a twisted way.

Truth be told I haven't spoken to a single customer or engine shop owner who was less then thrilled with the results from them. Not to mention bad news travels fast and I haven't seen too much of that around....

And yes, the new version of this head Im working on will also have the controversial wing (so there will be more to talk about)....it will simply be a little larger and be a shaftmount only application with the pushrod pinch removed. Seems a sizable percentage of the guys running this head are heading that direction anyway (going with shaftmount set-ups), so it made sense to spend the R&D time and offer it. Don't forget, the current 235 is a stud mount style direct bolt on 60/40 type cylinder head that based on the results pouring in seems to make easy work of 750+ HP in a single 4BBl bracket type engine configuration (more in very aggressive applications). Even including a Ti retainer and a PAC spring good for .800 lift we retail these heads for $2650, and once you've seen one in person I think you would agree we could have charged alot more and it still would have been money well spent.

Seems in life there are alot of ways to skin a cat no matter what your discussing (for lack of a better catch phrase at close to 3 AM in the morning).....especially if your motivated and think outside the box. While some may not agree with our approach (everyone of course entitled to their opinion), the cat is getting skinned all the same, and in grand fashion.

-Tony
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Re: Wet Flow Test Pic...................AFR Chevy 235

Post by GregGood »

Tony, I have never slammed your products. What I said about the curly cue wing in this thread was not aimed at you personally, as you are not the originator of it. Someone else a long time ago, don't know who, came up with it. It is an approximately 15 year old trick, that many of us have abandoned, that you decided to re-label as new technology and adapt to the AFR line. Good for you, but I wouldn't exactly call it thinking outside of the box.

As it stands, the wet flow on a 23 degree is so good it is well nigh impossible to screw it up completely, so you're in good shape.
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