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what shaft rocker would you run?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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heartbeatman
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what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by heartbeatman »

Hey guys, getting ready to order up some rockers for my 363 chevy 18 degree heads and was wondering if you had any recommendations. I have kind of narrowed it down to the crower steel rockers with the 1.48 arm length and a 1.7 ratio. Any idea's on arm length and ratio as well as brand? I was also considering the needle bearing tips for the crowers. This is going to be a 400 or so c.i., 12-1 motor ,solid roller, in a some what street driven 69 camaro that will be not so "max effort" but as close as i can get. Thanks in advance for any input !!
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by ProPower engines »

Crower makes a very bullit proof system and they will last forever. I have some with 10 seasons on them.No issues
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by colebalster »

Can't argue with Crower, but I personally like the Jesel setup. I have them on my 18 deg SBC and have no issues with them for 5 years. They were on a Busch car before I got them, so who knows how many miles are actually on them. Bearings and tips are great.

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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by heartbeatman »

Thanks for the input !! Any ideas on ratio's or does 1.7 seem good?
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by Dirty Imp »

Depends on spring pressure and rpm for the ratio as well.as camshaft ramp speed... crower for the win btw..
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by Lockwire »

heartbeatman wrote:Thanks for the input !! Any ideas on ratio's or does 1.7 seem good?
Talk to your camshaft guy. Mike Jones is the best.Stuart.
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by lun40119 »

I had T&D on my stuff last year. Very nice. This year we went to Crower stainless shafts on my 23 degree stuff. Very very nice. I have a 1.65 pivot length 1.85 ratio rocker arm. Crower was great to work with, took a little bit for all the custom stuff, but they got it all to fit..........:D Even with 7/16 pushrods.

If you want pictures of my stuff let me know, Ill snap some for you. Take care bud.
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by 1997bird »

I have used both Jessel and T&D but for the application's that they were used for I prefered the T&D shaft mounts. I would like to try a set of the Crane shaft mounts with the polymer-matrix bearings when they get that program back up and running again. I have used the Crower SS stud mount rocker's and prefer to use them over all of the other's out there, so I would expect their shaft mount rocker's to be the same way.
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by lun40119 »

1997bird wrote:I have used both Jessel and T&D but for the application's that they were used for I prefered the T&D shaft mounts. I would like to try a set of the Crane shaft mounts with the polymer-matrix bearings when they get that program back up and running again. I have used the Crower SS stud mount rocker's and prefer to use them over all of the other's out there, so I would expect their shaft mount rocker's to be the same way.
I have my old T&D's on my wifeys 383. I have thought about taking those off and trying the crower stud stuff. I am very curious to see how they are. I tried to talk a buddy that I help out into trying them, but we did the Comp stainless stuff. Are the one that you are running lasting quite a while?
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by 1997bird »

lun40119 wrote:
1997bird wrote:I have used both Jessel and T&D but for the application's that they were used for I prefered the T&D shaft mounts. I would like to try a set of the Crane shaft mounts with the polymer-matrix bearings when they get that program back up and running again. I have used the Crower SS stud mount rocker's and prefer to use them over all of the other's out there, so I would expect their shaft mount rocker's to be the same way.
I have my old T&D's on my wifeys 383. I have thought about taking those off and trying the crower stud stuff. I am very curious to see how they are. I tried to talk a buddy that I help out into trying them, but we did the Comp stainless stuff. Are the one that you are running lasting quite a while?
I have had very good luck with useing them and have had zero failure's thus far. I have had them in a few of my sponsored roundy round cars and they have been going for 3 years and getting ready for a 4th. I use a 1.8/1.85 rocker in one class and a 1.85/1.8 in another, these are their 1.54" pivot point intake rockers and 1.5" pivot point exhaust rockers. I haven't found a better stud mount rocker arm yet for my IMCA builds that mandate a stud mount rocker and sold flat tappet cam. Since I can't use stud girdles by rule I opt for the ARP Pro Series studs which are 200,000 psi rather than the standard 180,000 psi ones, trying to keep as much flex out of the stud as possible.
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by trmnatr »

1997bird wrote:
lun40119 wrote:
1997bird wrote:I have used both Jessel and T&D but for the application's that they were used for I prefered the T&D shaft mounts. I would like to try a set of the Crane shaft mounts with the polymer-matrix bearings when they get that program back up and running again. I have used the Crower SS stud mount rocker's and prefer to use them over all of the other's out there, so I would expect their shaft mount rocker's to be the same way.
I have my old T&D's on my wifeys 383. I have thought about taking those off and trying the crower stud stuff. I am very curious to see how they are. I tried to talk a buddy that I help out into trying them, but we did the Comp stainless stuff. Are the one that you are running lasting quite a while?
I have had very good luck with useing them and have had zero failure's thus far. I have had them in a few of my sponsored roundy round cars and they have been going for 3 years and getting ready for a 4th. I use a 1.8/1.85 rocker in one class and a 1.85/1.8 in another, these are their 1.54" pivot point intake rockers and 1.5" pivot point exhaust rockers. I haven't found a better stud mount rocker arm yet for my IMCA builds that mandate a stud mount rocker and sold flat tappet cam. Since I can't use stud girdles by rule I opt for the ARP Pro Series studs which are 200,000 psi rather than the standard 180,000 psi ones, trying to keep as much flex out of the stud as possible.
X2 on the Crower Stainless rocker, its set back .080"-.090"

You have to high light that you set them up properly as I do also. Most people have the dang rockers sitting on the threads of the studs

This is why ARP lists many different shank lengths so the rocker sits on the shanks, what happens is during (which you already know :) ) the time the lifter is rising to take away lash a stud rocker is getting pushed up the stud until its forced to pivot, the rockers are designed to fit the shank and its when they are not on the shank that they go in too a bind

If you use studs with the rocker sitting on the threads then change the studs only so the rocker sits on the shank PROPERLY you will see a difference in torque turning the engine over with a needle type torque wrench

With a shaft rocker of 1.5 and .020" lash (lash/rocker), the lash is taken up ~.0135" tappet lift because it pivots but with a stud rocker the same camshaft with 1.5 studs may not take up lash until closer to .020" tappet lift, this is because the lifter/pushrod is taking up the lash by raising the rocker on the stud where the shaft is pivoting as soon as the pushrod comes up
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by Wolfplace »

trmnatr wrote:With a shaft rocker of 1.5 and .020" lash (lash/rocker), the lash is taken up ~.0135" tappet lift because it pivots but with a stud rocker the same camshaft with 1.5 studs may not take up lash until closer to .020" tappet lift, this is because the lifter/pushrod is taking up the lash by raising the rocker on the stud where the shaft is pivoting as soon as the pushrod comes up
This is not correct.
With .020 lash the result will be the same regardless of rocker type if the ratio is the same
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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by lun40119 »

Wolfplace wrote:
trmnatr wrote:With a shaft rocker of 1.5 and .020" lash (lash/rocker), the lash is taken up ~.0135" tappet lift because it pivots but with a stud rocker the same camshaft with 1.5 studs may not take up lash until closer to .020" tappet lift, this is because the lifter/pushrod is taking up the lash by raising the rocker on the stud where the shaft is pivoting as soon as the pushrod comes up
This is not correct.
With .020 lash the result will be the same regardless of rocker type if the ratio is the same
I am sure in one way or another Mike, you are wrong. It is almost a no win situation lately. :( Hope all is well out there bud. I took possession of my new turd last night. Now it is time to do something with it.........;)

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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by Wolfplace »

lun40119 wrote:
Wolfplace wrote:
trmnatr wrote:With a shaft rocker of 1.5 and .020" lash (lash/rocker), the lash is taken up ~.0135" tappet lift because it pivots but with a stud rocker the same camshaft with 1.5 studs may not take up lash until closer to .020" tappet lift, this is because the lifter/pushrod is taking up the lash by raising the rocker on the stud where the shaft is pivoting as soon as the pushrod comes up
This is not correct.
With .020 lash the result will be the same regardless of rocker type if the ratio is the same
I am sure in one way or another Mike, you are wrong. It is almost a no win situation lately. :( Hope all is well out there bud. I took possession of my new turd last night. Now it is time to do something with it.........;)

lun40119=Less time on the computer and more time with a wrench in my hand. :D
Things are good, busy as hell but I guess that is better than the alternative

I heard you were close,, talked to Tom last week & he gave me a few updates
From what I gather this "turd" of yours is going to fly :D
Mike
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A tour of my shop
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And a few pics of the gang

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Re: what shaft rocker would you run?

Post by trmnatr »

Wolfplace wrote:
trmnatr wrote:With a shaft rocker of 1.5 and .020" lash (lash/rocker), the lash is taken up ~.0135" tappet lift because it pivots but with a stud rocker the same camshaft with 1.5 studs may not take up lash until closer to .020" tappet lift, this is because the lifter/pushrod is taking up the lash by raising the rocker on the stud where the shaft is pivoting as soon as the pushrod comes up
This is not correct.
With .020 lash the result will be the same regardless of rocker type if the ratio is the same
You might want to re visit that on a dial indicator and degree wheel

The shaft rocker will start valve lift sooner than a stud rocker as it just pivots, the stud rocker drops down from the adjusting nut and you can measure the pushrod lifting the tail of the rocker up until the trunnion hits the adjusting nut and starts pivoting
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