Why do Cryo'd sparkplugs make more horsepower?

[dieselgeek]

If an engine spins 6,000 rpm;s that is 100 times a second--if my math is correct. Every 2 times the engine turns over the plug should fire. So 50 times each second the plug should fire @ 6,000 rpm's.

If 5 out of those 50 times a second the plug should fire but does not it will cost power. There is no way you could feel the misfire I can't believe.

Would a scope show it ?

O2 sensors for each cylinder make it pretty easy to see.

[340king]

Forget about resistance, it is futile. LOL's It is all about impedance, which brings along with it the impact of inductance and capacitance to the equation. In theory cryo treating parts removes the dislocations in the crystalline lattice. If these dislocations created some sort of inconsistent impedance from plug to plug that is removed by treating, then it could be a real deal.

I am just as skeptical as the next guy, but I also am into high fidelity as in "audiophile." There you can get into some pretty amazing things that shouldn't affect sound quality, but my most precious instruments can detect the difference, my ears. So stranger things have happened.

[JohnnyB]

If an engine spins 6,000 rpm;s that is 100 times a second--if my math is correct. Every 2 times the engine turns over the plug should fire. So 50 times each second the plug should fire @ 6,000 rpm's.

If 5 out of those 50 times a second the plug should fire but does not it will cost power. There is no way you could feel the misfire I can't believe.

Would a scope show it ?

I agree. If you are misfiring you will for sure be losing power. I would bet money that 95 percent of motors that are misfiring ARE NOT doing it due to plug problems. The plugs might get blamed, however the plug cannot fire if it isn't getting proper voltage and amperage. Then the plugs foul, people pull plugs, see fouling, and replace the plugs...........until they foul again. Then the cycle stars over till somebody discovers the real culprit, coils, distributors, electronic boxes gone bad, or fried wires. The plugs get blamed because they are the easiest to see, and generally dont cost as much as the rest of the junk.

[Dodge Freak]

If an engine spins 6,000 rpm;s that is 100 times a second--if my math is correct. Every 2 times the engine turns over the plug should fire. So 50 times each second the plug should fire @ 6,000 rpm's.

If 5 out of those 50 times a second the plug should fire but does not it will cost power. There is no way you could feel the misfire I can't believe.

Would a scope show it ?

I agree. If you are misfiring you will for sure be losing power. I would bet money that 95 percent of motors that are misfiring ARE NOT doing it due to plug problems. The plugs might get blamed, however the plug cannot fire if it isn't getting proper voltage and amperage. Then the plugs foul, people pull plugs, see fouling, and replace the plugs...........until they foul again. Then the cycle stars over till somebody discovers the real culprit, coils, distributors, electronic boxes gone bad, or fried wires. The plugs get blamed because they are the easiest to see, and generally dont cost as much as the rest of the junk.

[Dodge Freak]

What happen--double post almost--hope I get a new notebook for Xmaz

If an engine spins 6,000 rpm;s that is 100 times a second--if my math is correct. Every 2 times the engine turns over the plug should fire. So 50 times each second the plug should fire @ 6,000 rpm's.

If 5 out of those 50 times a second the plug should fire but does not it will cost power. There is no way you could feel the misfire I can't believe.

Would a scope show it ?

I agree. If you are misfiring you will for sure be losing power. I would bet money that 95 percent of motors that are misfiring ARE NOT doing it due to plug problems. The plugs might get blamed, however the plug cannot fire if it isn't getting proper voltage and amperage. Then the plugs foul, people pull plugs, see fouling, and replace the plugs...........until they foul again. Then the cycle stars over till somebody discovers the real culprit, coils, distributors, electronic boxes gone bad, or fried wires. The plugs get blamed because they are the easiest to see, and generally dont cost as much as the rest of the junk.

Brand new plugs should fire a bit easier--least while they are still new.

Some spark plugs might fire even easier vs other brands, if so, they should make more hp when you have a less then perfect ignition system.

MSD tech told me when I asked how their 7al box would be OK for street use, the tech guy said oh sure and same with the better MSD 8 box, with the right coil its great for even the street.

Those higher end boxes need top notch everything else or a misfire will happen. I had a crack plug boot once and the engine during light throttle was fine but missed when I started to floor it. The wires were pretty new so I swap to my old MSD 6 box. The problem went 100% away. Drove it for a few days to make sure and then sent the MSD 7al box in for repair.

3--4 weeks later it comes back as is, no problems found. I was like huh, put the 7al box back on and same old problem. I was pissed and yelled at MSD how come you didn't fix my box.

The tech guy got me to clam down and explain whats going on, he then said I got a leak in the spark somewhere and the 6 box isn't strong enough to find the leak but the 7 box can. To take each wire off and bend them and look for cracks, sure enough I seen the crack boot and with some black tape the problem was gone.

That was the 7 box, the 8 box is stronger yet but then you need larger dist caps to space the terminals farther apart or problems like the 5--7 cylinders could crossfire and blow a hole in a piston.

I did notice the engine cold idle was better-stronger with the 7 box vs the 6 box. The sales guy at Summit told me I was wasting money buying the 7 box vs the 6. I think he was wrong. Bet he would had sold me $8 a piece spark plugs

[stealth]

You fixed your engine (ign wires) worthy of a MSD 7 with some black tape???........lol

[JohnnyB]

You fixed your engine (ign wires) worthy of a MSD 7 with some black tape???........lol

3M electrical tape Scotch super 33 Professional grade vinyl is rated to a MAX of 600volts insulating capacity. No way is it going to stop a 30 to 40 THOUSAND volt circuit from arcing. Im thinking what you are trying to say is your wires were not capable of handling the higher voltage of the MSD box. That has nothing to do with your plugs. Again, the plugs cannot be accountable for defects elsewhere in the system. Essentially what you were seeing is dielectric breakdown of your wires due to applying more voltage than they could handle. This causes them to leak voltage like a plastic bag with holes in it would leak water. Once the insulation started to breakdown then a carbon track is formed in the insulation that would act like a conductive wire/circuit that will now leak voltage at even lower voltage levels than originally burned the wires to start with. The plug isn't even part of the circuit at that point. It would have a higher resistance to ground due to the air gap at the electrode ,(not the metal in the plug )than the path to ground thru the insulation that had broke down. At that point you needed NEW plug wires, not tape only rated at 600 volts.

[n2omike]

Geez, guys... I'm sure he just meant he band-aided the problem enough to see where the fault was.

If the crack in the wire was gaping open enough to see, and he used the tape to hold it closed... and provide a little extra insulation... it was enough to diagnose the problem.

[Dodge Freak]

Geez, guys... I'm sure he just meant he band-aided the problem enough to see where the fault was.

If the crack in the wire was gaping open enough to see, and he used the tape to hold it closed... and provide a little extra insulation... it was enough to diagnose the problem.

Yes, it was a temporary fix--and it did work. MSD sent me 2 brand new wires after I called and thank them for their help.

The header melted one boot and it cracked, I just didn't look cause the wires were only a few weeks old. Yeah that was dumb of me to over look it but I guess I'm not as sharp as some

What is it like to be prefect

[Dodge Freak]

You fixed your engine (ign wires) worthy of a MSD 7 with some black tape???........lol

3M electrical tape Scotch super 33 Professional grade vinyl is rated to a MAX of 600volts insulating capacity. No way is it going to stop a 30 to 40 THOUSAND volt circuit from arcing. .

Well you gotta get your mind out of the text books and in to the real world. With a little space between the header pipe and the boot, the black tape did work and it was cheap black electrical tape from ACO hardware store. Heck it worked good for 2 weeks until I put the new wire on.

I now don't use MSD wires. I got some NASCAR wires made by Delphi on ebay but now those are getting old. Not sure what I be getting next--likely the best I can afford

[Ozonkiller]

"What is it like to be prefect "

I'll ask the wife

[JohnnyB]

Hey guys, not inferring anything bad by using the tape. Just letting you know of its limitations. I am a frickin electrician. I would never trust electrical tape on high voltage as an insulator when my life is what is at risk. Had nothing to do with textbooks. Has to do with THE REAL WORLD..........

[stealth]

You fixed your engine (ign wires) worthy of a MSD 7 with some black tape???........lol

3M electrical tape Scotch super 33 Professional grade vinyl is rated to a MAX of 600volts insulating capacity. No way is it going to stop a 30 to 40 THOUSAND volt circuit from arcing. .

Well you gotta get your mind out of the text books and in to the real world. With a little space between the header pipe and the boot, the black tape did work and it was cheap black electrical tape from ACO hardware store. Heck it worked good for 2 weeks until I put the new wire on.

I now don't use MSD wires. I got some NASCAR wires made by Delphi on ebay but now those are getting old. Not sure what I be getting next--likely the best I can afford

Just bustin' your stones....a joke.. (kinda' funny you gotta admit)

[Eric68]

I think the gimmicky plug deal has all played out. There's been so many claims over the years with all sorts of gadgety spark plugs and none have ever been proven to my satisfaction to make more power than a good proper heat range standard race plug.

Like quite a few have said, a bad, worn, wrong heat range, etc plug will cost some power but I don't think cryo-treating a plug is going to make more power than the same part number new non-cryotreated plug.

[Jeff Lee]

FWIW - I'm told a razor blade that has gone through the cryo process will last months instead of weeks at "optimum" sharpness. Nothing has changed physically.
Perhaps that is why cryo will help a plug?

Why can MSD "tuners" find more power inside of the MSD box? New MSD boxes I might ad. The reason is because the parts inside are not always the best parts as delivered from MSD.

Why is it that I can dyno an engine of mine and go from new plug MSD plug wires to NOLOGY plug wires and pick up substantial HP? "Experts" say this is not possible because "a spark is all you need". This was on my NHRA #1 qualifying Stock Eliminator engine so it was no slouch.

After talking to a few EMC participants, I sold off my MSD7AL3 and bought a complete ICE 10 amp package. Have yet to try it, engine is in pieces for about a month longer.

My experience is there is more to ignitions than just "firing as necessary and only as necessary."

In the grand scheme of things, cryo'ing a set of plugs is not that much money on a race engine. I'll try it one day. Can't see that it would hurt anything. And if possible, I'll do A-B testing (as you couldn't do A-B-A testing) with the same plugs in the same cylinders if I can get a cryo treatment overnight. I use NGK plugs.

FWIW #2 - I once tried SplitFires. What junk! The center electrode was well rounded after very little use on the side facing the middle of the "Y", showing the spark did not flow to the two legs of the "Y" group strap. Or maybe they use inferior materials. But they sure didn't last long! This was a record setting NHRA turbo Stocker. Another issue; the body of the SplitFire is smooth, not ribbed. This in itself is a poorly designed cost saving issue. The ribbing is to keep the spark voltage from the spark plug wire terminal from irradic grounding problems. At least that is my understanding.