sleeveing blocks with no crush?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

promachine
Pro
Pro
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: chico ca.

sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by promachine »

Somebody was telling me recently about a chemical used for filling in the gap and setting cyl. sleeves using .002-.003" clearence rather than a press fit. Supposedly used on honda blocks. Anybody know what this chemical is or who makes it?
h.p. peddler
colebalster
Pro
Pro
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:08 pm
Location: Simi Valley
Contact:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by colebalster »

There are quite a few different Loctie products you can use depending on amount of clearance, temperature, bond strength, cure time, etc. For the LS motors that have a very light press fit (.0005" or less), you can use Loctite 515 on the bottom and sides of the sleeve, and Loctite 620 or 640 around the top.

You can also check with Steve Demirjian at Race Engine Development in San Diego. He has a lot for knowledge in sleeves and works closly with Darton.

Cole
machineman1
New Member
New Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:14 pm
Location:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by machineman1 »

We used to use this stuff called litharge used to get it at the drug store mixed it with a liquid it made a paste we smeared on sleeves and seats before fitting. I dont remember what the liquid was, nor do i know if the powder is still available , but its a lead if your interested.
Shopboss
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by Shopboss »

K-Line use to market that system. I never got up the nerve to try it. They said it would hold better than several thousands interference fit.
Another shop close to me used the system and he swore by it.
I did a web search for them and couldn't get any thing to come up.
I know SBI has taken over the K-Line Bronze liner line. (try saying that three times real fast :lol: ) so they may not be in business anymore.

Donny
promachine
Pro
Pro
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: chico ca.

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by promachine »

Thank you, I will try K-Line, I am making some sleeves for a throttle body and its bored so big that I am afraid it will break out if I press them in. I knew I could count on you guys!!!
h.p. peddler
Schurkey
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:42 am
Location: The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by Schurkey »

machineman1 wrote:We used to use this stuff called litharge used to get it at the drug store mixed it with a liquid it made a paste
Image
bbmachine
Member
Member
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:12 pm
Location:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by bbmachine »

John, .0015-.0025" crush, freeze the sleeve (apply loctite before freezing), heat the throttle body and assemble quick! Also I did see at PRI show years ago someone was marketing a process to install cylinder sleeves in blocks. 2-3 thou clearance, used a primer on sleeve od and block id applied with a foam roller. Then apply a super strong, heat resistant thick super glue with no voids, slide the sleeve into the block turning back and forth slowly. You had to use something to hold the sleeve in place while it set up.
Bill
8)
mike walsh
Expert
Expert
Posts: 692
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: Southeast America

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by mike walsh »

I haven't ever ran acrossed "miracle glue," but it might still be out there, probably next to the can of rpms.
I cannot think of one application where you wouldn't want a press fit, except no bore micrometer.
Done hundreds of sleeves and rarely had problems.
All must be held in place while temps "normalize."
mikeeebikey@yahoo.com


Drag racers prayer:
As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride." -Amen
promachine
Pro
Pro
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:50 pm
Location: chico ca.

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by promachine »

No luck finding K-line but came up with my own formula and seems to work good for what I am doing. I am pretty sure I wouldnt do this for a cyl sleeve in a block even though in some cases a press fit is kinda risky. What I have is a Hillborn 4 hole bored out to 3.290" and I am sleeving it back down to 3.125". If you have an old 4 port sitting around measure it up and you will see how thin it can be.
h.p. peddler
Bumps440
Member
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:00 am
Location: NEW YORK, now in Florida

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by Bumps440 »

Cant relate any experience to cylinder sleeves, but have used a product from Loctite to install "loose" bearing races in HD construction equipment. WE called IT " green" because of its color. I cant remember the part number of the stuff. but it is used with a loctite primer and a layer of this green stuff. I can say that it absolutely works. After many overhauls of HD equipment , the races NEVER loosened up. Only thing about loctite products is you use heat to loosen it to get it removed again. Cant say from experience on sleeves, but maybe a call to loctite will be enlightening.
Keith Morganstein
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5566
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:19 am
Location: MA

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by Keith Morganstein »

promachine wrote:Thank you, I will try K-Line, I am making some sleeves for a throttle body and its bored so big that I am afraid it will break out if I press them in. I knew I could count on you guys!!!
several loctite products are up to the task. Best choice is probably # 620 high temp bearing mount. Up to .015" gap, 450° F., 3800 psi strength.
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Can't seem to quit #-o
ec1
Member
Member
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:03 pm
Location:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by ec1 »

I used to use the Kline glue on OLD single cylinder 1900-1910ish jugs mainly. Had to leave about .0015-.002 slip fit. I was too worried that the block would fall into pieces with all of the lead soldier and welding that held them together if I were to use a press fit sleeve. I never had one move, but I got to thinking after the third or fourth one that i ought to put a screw in pin in the bottom of the sleeve to be safe, slept a little better. Since Kline went away, I use the Loctite 620, with a slip fit and a retaining pin and it works well. However, these engines are making only about 7 or 8hp!
dwilliams
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:00 am
Location:

Post by dwilliams »

Some company came up with the idea of using super-thin liners held with superglue. I forget their name now. I was *very* interested, having a collection of .040 and .060-over 400 Chevy blocks in the scrap pile that could have been turned into money. I traced the product to K-Line, who had bought the company before their press releases hit the magazines, and followed up a few times, but as far as I know they never hit the market.
digger
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2722
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:39 am
Location:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by digger »

without interference on a cylinder sleeve i would think the heat transfer coefficient across the glue would be pretty critical
User avatar
modok
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3321
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:50 am
Location:

Re: sleeveing blocks with no crush?

Post by modok »

promachine wrote:Thank you, I will try K-Line, I am making some sleeves for a throttle body and its bored so big that I am afraid it will break out if I press them in. I knew I could count on you guys!!!
loctite 620 will be more than adequate for a throttle body

Is the cylinder sleeve question separate issue?
Post Reply