Max Effort wrote:on a side note, I read in a recent issue of Engine Builder Magazine that bearings with tangs are going away. ( they said tanged bearings will not be used in current production engines)
Current turbo VW engines have no tangs on the rods, which have cracked caps, which means they are not divided exactly in half.
Another interesting feature is the small end- no bushing, forced pin oiling, and a trapezoidal shape-the part closed to the beam being full width, while the topmost part is quite a bit narrower. The piston pin bore has the opposite corresponding shape.
The current Volvo 4 valve engines don't use tangs. As do other recently designed motors. I know of at least one that has spun the main shells. My wifes.
As regards the con rod/piston design heavy commercial engine builders have run a similar design for many years, if I'm reading your post right. Guess it's an attempt to put the greatest load bearing area (in a low revving diesel) in the right place. Cummins L10, for example. All the ones I've seen were bushed though, although some are pressure oiled too.
DavidNJ wrote:Even the non-political becomes political. The best evidence would be actual experience, one way or the other.
Dragnet's Joe Friday said "Just the facts" (1951-59, 67-70). In this case facts will speak loudest.
"Man is a political animal" Aristotle
How we buy and what we buy are determined by factors, sometimes, out of out control. While I have purchased chinese goods, it has not been by choice. When I can, I do purchase American or from other countries that treat their employees well (or better) than Americans companies.
DavidNJ wrote:Mike, When checking the rods have you found bad ones?
Jethro, do you use Chinese pieces for race engines also?
Note: The crate engine pheonomina is about marketing more than manufacturing. Someone building a stock car or drag car may see what engine builders others use. How does someone building a restomod, hot rod, or street/strip car find an engine builder they can trust? How does a local racer know you can build an engine as well as the builder near the track a 3-hour drive away?
A better question would be how long have you been using Offshore parts and equipment without even knowing ?
I use the the best parts available, within the customers criteria for the application.
....but to answer your question I do happen to know of at least a few championship NA engines that where in fact designed using calculators made in Japan!
DavidNJ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:49 pm
Mike, When checking the rods have you found bad ones?
Jethro, do you use Chinese pieces for race engines also?
Note: The crate engine pheonomina is about marketing more than manufacturing. Someone building a stock car or drag car may see what engine builders others use. How does someone building a restomod, hot rod, or street/strip car find an engine builder they can trust? How does a local racer know you can build an engine as well as the builder near the track a 3-hour drive away?
IMHO!
Buy your fu*king crate engine, BUT tear it down when you get it NEW and check it before you use it!!
Again, -- IMHO!!
I have driven DD engines that were wore out after a stock CHEAP R&R for years BUT I never beat on them!!! You all know?? A $150 Krylon spray can overhaul... The engine ran good so I just put stock main and rod bearings along with stock rings for another 100,000 miles.
.015" on the cylinders and the main and rod journals both had groves in them that I could feel,, but they ran fine by me IF I didn't beat on them!!
Long while back on the boob tube ( TV ) they did an interview and tour of eagle all the machining done there in USA and is not scat the same company that made parts to race VWs way back in the 1970s. Looks like these company's buy there steel from china because its cheaper. As far as any business smaller or big corporation they are nobody, nothing, nada, zero without the consumer/customer. If that customer always wants the cheaper in cost, they spend the dollars that keep any business alive, so there money spending sets the tone as to what will be produced and where. Long time ago i remember at sear's there were american made craftsman tools but they had known cheaper made in china tools for sale same shelfs. The consumer cheapness and no regard for the fellow american worker put themselfs into only one choice now at most places.
Last edited by Little Mouse on Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
DavidNJ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:49 pm
Mike, When checking the rods have you found bad ones?
Jethro, do you use Chinese pieces for race engines also?
Note: The crate engine pheonomina is about marketing more than manufacturing. Someone building a stock car or drag car may see what engine builders others use. How does someone building a restomod, hot rod, or street/strip car find an engine builder they can trust? How does a local racer know you can build an engine as well as the builder near the track a 3-hour drive away?
IMHO!
Buy your fu*king crate engine, BUT tear it down when you get it NEW and check it before you use it!!
Again, -- IMHO!!
I have driven DD engines that were wore out after a stock CHEAP R&R for years BUT I never beat on them!!! You all know?? A $150 Krylon spray can overhaul... The engine ran good so I just put stock main and rod bearings along with stock rings for another 100,000 miles.
.015" on the cylinders and the main and rod journals both had groves in them that I could feel,, but they ran fine by me IF I didn't beat on them!!
pdq67
There are kids in high school right now that weren't alive when the post you quoted was authored.
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
I would say the majority of my customers have limited resources, they are all looking for the biggest bang for the buck. I do no circle track stuff, over the years it's been boat engines, muscle car restorations, drag racers, mud racers, mini rod tractors, and pulling trucks. Most of the engines have been a combination of good used and Chinese parts. Knocking on wood I have had good results. I am up front with my customers, and lay out in plain language what to expect from a combination, and a few go the better quality parts, but not many. Most of the time they want to drop off a collection of swap meet parts and expect me to build something with stuff that just would no go well together.
I see the main limiting factor in most of my builds as the engine block, not imported cranks and rods. Especially since I build a lot of mopars, blocks are very expensive and off and on impossible to get even if you have the money.
My son for a time as an engineer travelled to China, where his company had a factory to build components for sale in that part of the world, they do not import stuff from China. One of the things my son told me was that in dealing with Chinese manufactures was that as soon as you said you were from America the automatically figured you wanted as cheap as possible. My son said the first hurdle was to make them understand he wanted quality. The Chinese have progressed to the point they can make quality components if prompted to do so. My son said he had much more trouble getting good components made in Mexico than in Asia.
Bottom line you look it up america still the number one manufacture of products in the world, though china not far behind and surpassed the japanese. Ya those japanese that everyone worried about not long ago. China even assembles both yamaha and suzuki motorcycles. One of my cousins ones two yamaha dealerships. Along with other stuff, rich man.
So, some 14 years since this thread started, what is the state of imported parts? Back to the crankshaft and connecting rod question.
As an example: Open road event engine (Gen 1 SBC because they appear to be the easiest to relate to). At or near Max torque/Max HP RPM for however long but certainly longer than a drag race.
I've read here:
SCAT 9000. No.
SCAT 4340. Maybe.
Any Eagle. No.
Not sure about the rods other than SCAT is better than Eagle?
How do you suppose any of the above would compare to a 70s vintage GM forged crank or a set of Crower H-beam rods from 25 years ago?
Then there are cylinder heads. It would seem that the quality has been improving to the point where, other than the requisite inspection of any new part, they're good to go right out of the box.
What's the word ?
Keith Morganstein wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:04 pm
on a side note, I read in a recent issue of Engine Builder Magazine that bearings with tangs are going away. ( they said tanged bearings will not be used in current production engines)
Several years back at an AERA seminar at Rottler, I was complaining to the Clevite rep that they had dropped Studebaker bearings from their catalog. I said we were having to use small-journal SBC rod bearings and cut new tang grooves in the rods. He said, "Just grind off the tangs. They're only there so blind people can assemble engines. Most engines from here on out will be assembled by robots and they don't need the tangs."
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Yep all politicians are bought and paid for. Anytime one of them talks a lie flys out there mouth and they fart a lie at the same time. Makes no difference which party, they are scum of the earth.
Little Mouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:31 am
Bottom line you look it up america still the number one manufacture of products in the world, though china not far behind and surpassed the japanese. Ya those japanese that everyone worried about not long ago. China even assembles both yamaha and suzuki motorcycles. One of my cousins ones two yamaha dealerships. Along with other stuff, rich man.
Yamaha and Suzuki small bikes sold in the Asian market are made in China. The larger models sold in the Western world are made in their Japanese factories. Some large Japanese bikes are assembled in the USA.
This forum used to be free of political crap...
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
There certainly seems to be a lot of political angst in the Engine Tech forum!
I was just inquiring about crankshaft and connecting rods.
That said, although I live north of the 49th parallel, I still try to source US made goods when I can (and CDN too when it's possible). But it's increasingly difficult to get past the advertising subterfuge when it comes to trying to locate the manufacture of said crankshafts and rods.
So, we're kind of stuck with it.
Still, I'd like to get some informed opinions of what's junk and what isn't.
?
