Scat and Eagle cranks and rods. Chinese forging used in Callies Compstar and Crower low end products. And other's private labeled by a variety of of sources.
They appear to be used in engines from Reher-Morrison. And in ASA crate motors from Ford.
Yet some people believe they are inferior to 35 year old US components.
What is the real story? Are the parts defective? Is the machining faulty? Or do they represent a good value?
Thanks,
David
What is the quality of the current Chinese imports?
Moderator: Team
-
SchmidtMotorWorks
- Vendor
- Posts: 11003
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:30 am
- Location: CA
It doesn't really matter much. if racing parts go the way of mold tooling, computers and software development, it will all be done in China after everyone in the US is driven out of business trying to compete with labor so cheap that a US person would have to do more work in an hour than someone in China does all day to compete. Not to mention the burdons of doing business in the US.What is the real story? Are the parts defective? Is the machining faulty? Or do they represent a good value?
I just did my taxes, anyone that stays in manufacturing in the US is swimming against the current, for what?
I can't speak to molds and computers, however software development is largely outsourced to India rather than China. While the Indian wage rates are lower, I believe it is generally less expensive only when the domestic development was not cost efficent: poorly trained and poorly managed. The margin for an efficient shop is not as great since its competitors are all efficient also, however they are still viable.
DavidNJ,
I am curious as well as I am sure many others are too. I have heard the forgings are better than they used to be. I believe you must still be very careful in checking everything you can in building a good engine. It is just common sense.
Beware these threads always become political- so I hope someone actually tries to answer your questions.
I wonder how many of those who get pissed about this issue can say they buy nothing but American goods? I doubt ANY can. It is out of our hands now. The corporations are to blame because, yes it is far cheaper to have things produced offshore and they are in business to make money. We live in a society where capitalism reigns as a "moral" maxim. The rich will continue to get richer and the poor get poorer. Look at how long cars are lasting these days in general- and even your American cars have many parts made over seas. At any rate, we can complain all we want to- there is nothing we can do about it. Stop buying imports- it won't happen because we ALL do it; it is unavoidable. Call me unpatriotic if you want to, but this country is not run by the people for the people- it is run by corporations who run it for the purpose of making more money.
One thing I will always say is nothing lasts forever- that alone can be applied to any and everything. Go figure.
I am curious as well as I am sure many others are too. I have heard the forgings are better than they used to be. I believe you must still be very careful in checking everything you can in building a good engine. It is just common sense.
Beware these threads always become political- so I hope someone actually tries to answer your questions.
I wonder how many of those who get pissed about this issue can say they buy nothing but American goods? I doubt ANY can. It is out of our hands now. The corporations are to blame because, yes it is far cheaper to have things produced offshore and they are in business to make money. We live in a society where capitalism reigns as a "moral" maxim. The rich will continue to get richer and the poor get poorer. Look at how long cars are lasting these days in general- and even your American cars have many parts made over seas. At any rate, we can complain all we want to- there is nothing we can do about it. Stop buying imports- it won't happen because we ALL do it; it is unavoidable. Call me unpatriotic if you want to, but this country is not run by the people for the people- it is run by corporations who run it for the purpose of making more money.
One thing I will always say is nothing lasts forever- that alone can be applied to any and everything. Go figure.
1968 Camaro, tagged, insured
pump gas LS stroker 404cid
th400, 3.89 gear, drag radial, footbrake
10.110 @ 133.49, 1.455 60'
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” -E. Hemingway
pump gas LS stroker 404cid
th400, 3.89 gear, drag radial, footbrake
10.110 @ 133.49, 1.455 60'
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” -E. Hemingway
I agree David- "Just the facts". Considering, I would say I have used the imported parts successfully. I have never used these in very high horsepower (550HP max) situations but I have used these at as much as 8,600rpm on several occassions. I would say for a street car or even N/A drag car you would be alright. Something such as a circle track application which sees sustained rpm you may want to consider some nicer (more expensive) parts for the sake of piece of mind. I recommend making as many phone calls as possible and talking to as many builders as possible. I have spoken with two very reputable builders within the last couple weeks who would agree the imported parts are much better now than they were about three years ago. The fit and finish of the SCAT products I would say are quite good. I would not cut any corners on connecting rods in high horsepower applications.
1968 Camaro, tagged, insured
pump gas LS stroker 404cid
th400, 3.89 gear, drag radial, footbrake
10.110 @ 133.49, 1.455 60'
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” -E. Hemingway
pump gas LS stroker 404cid
th400, 3.89 gear, drag radial, footbrake
10.110 @ 133.49, 1.455 60'
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” -E. Hemingway
-
larrycavan
- Expert
- Posts: 885
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:17 am
- Location:
- Contact:
This is probably treading on dangerous ground...it's certainly off topic of the thread...But I HEAR you and I AGREE with you!SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:It doesn't really matter much. if racing parts go the way of mold tooling, computers and software development, it will all be done in China after everyone in the US is driven out of business trying to compete with labor so cheap that a US person would have to do more work in an hour than someone in China does all day to compete. Not to mention the burdons of doing business in the US.What is the real story? Are the parts defective? Is the machining faulty? Or do they represent a good value?
I just did my taxes, anyone that stays in manufacturing in the US is swimming against the current, for what?
Can you say INSURANCE IS OUT OF SIGHT?
Banks are getting into the insurance business in my area. What's that tell you? The banking industry tends to lean toward profiability....tells me the cost of insurance is INFLATED BIG TIME!
Body shops, repair shops, all sorts of little operations are going under because the cost of doing business is out of control....
That's it....I'd better stop...
Returning thread to proper topic..
Larry C
For what it's worth (not getting into politics) i use TON of scat 9000 series cranks. No doubt the best bang for the buck. I'll use them in just about all my street engines, and most circle track 2bbl engines. I use alot of their i beam rods for street stuff as well. as long as you check all the parts, (big end size, and pin bushing size) you'll be fine. Like anything they have their limits. I also have use a Scat lightweight billet crank in a Circle track modified with great success!
Mike Theroux
Mike Theroux
Mike Theroux
www.mikesportingservice.net
There is never enough time!!
www.mikesportingservice.net
There is never enough time!!
-
Jethro Gumpfrey
Yep, Some of that stuff is gettin prety good! I'ld still stay away from the chicken though! 
On a serious note however, I think it must be said that we all see the market changing and as we all get older it becomes more difficult to adapt, weather it is due to our reluctance or just failure to see the opportunity. Cheaper rotating assemblies may bring down the cost of the milder performance builds but they also thin out the margins for retailers when they are marketed to the public at a fraction above what the industry is paying. Those with specialised service experience need to remember that "One machine may do the work of fifty men but No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." you must market yourself differently. If the corporations are going to set the price we can't touch we must raise the bar on the tearms and offer the quality and value they cannot offer. I have heard more dissapointed stories from crate engine purchasers who have bought into the hype only to be let down by the lack of performance offered from assbly line engines. Build a better product, Incorporate the services and products from those who who will produce within your criteria and offer more to the customer. We cannot be beat! I'll build a typical Small block on a budjet for $6500 dollars that will make between 500 and 575 Hp dependably, ( dependant on combination and application ), with excellent street manners, for a customer who might be typically interested in a crate engine with inferior power output and attention to details. Many of the new consumers are better educated, but they still lack the experience and ability or facilities, to build, develope and test engines. Market on your strengths and forget about competing with price!
Remeber: Good no come cheep!
and cheep no come good!
I'll stay away from the pollitics!
It just get me in trouble!
On a serious note however, I think it must be said that we all see the market changing and as we all get older it becomes more difficult to adapt, weather it is due to our reluctance or just failure to see the opportunity. Cheaper rotating assemblies may bring down the cost of the milder performance builds but they also thin out the margins for retailers when they are marketed to the public at a fraction above what the industry is paying. Those with specialised service experience need to remember that "One machine may do the work of fifty men but No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." you must market yourself differently. If the corporations are going to set the price we can't touch we must raise the bar on the tearms and offer the quality and value they cannot offer. I have heard more dissapointed stories from crate engine purchasers who have bought into the hype only to be let down by the lack of performance offered from assbly line engines. Build a better product, Incorporate the services and products from those who who will produce within your criteria and offer more to the customer. We cannot be beat! I'll build a typical Small block on a budjet for $6500 dollars that will make between 500 and 575 Hp dependably, ( dependant on combination and application ), with excellent street manners, for a customer who might be typically interested in a crate engine with inferior power output and attention to details. Many of the new consumers are better educated, but they still lack the experience and ability or facilities, to build, develope and test engines. Market on your strengths and forget about competing with price!
Remeber: Good no come cheep!
and cheep no come good!
I'll stay away from the pollitics!
It just get me in trouble!Mike, When checking the rods have you found bad ones?
Jethro, do you use Chinese pieces for race engines also?
Note: The crate engine pheonomina is about marketing more than manufacturing. Someone building a stock car or drag car may see what engine builders others use. How does someone building a restomod, hot rod, or street/strip car find an engine builder they can trust? How does a local racer know you can build an engine as well as the builder near the track a 3-hour drive away?
Jethro, do you use Chinese pieces for race engines also?
Note: The crate engine pheonomina is about marketing more than manufacturing. Someone building a stock car or drag car may see what engine builders others use. How does someone building a restomod, hot rod, or street/strip car find an engine builder they can trust? How does a local racer know you can build an engine as well as the builder near the track a 3-hour drive away?
David,
Whenever i get a new set of rods, i always wash them, break the capscrews loose, relube them with ARP moly, re-torque them and check the housing bores. Then i check the pin bushings as well. (most times they are tight. about .0005" Clearance for a .927" pin. i bump them up to .001" CL. On the eagle i beam rods i do the same and have found their out more than the scats. Once i found the bearing tang slot was not deep enough so as the bearing wouldn't sit all the way in the cap. That is one of the biggest reasons their so low cost, your doing the rest of the work. I found the scat cranks always mic up smaller than the low of the spec. (SB chevy stuff) so expect to run H-1s for proper bearing clearance.
Mike Theroux
Whenever i get a new set of rods, i always wash them, break the capscrews loose, relube them with ARP moly, re-torque them and check the housing bores. Then i check the pin bushings as well. (most times they are tight. about .0005" Clearance for a .927" pin. i bump them up to .001" CL. On the eagle i beam rods i do the same and have found their out more than the scats. Once i found the bearing tang slot was not deep enough so as the bearing wouldn't sit all the way in the cap. That is one of the biggest reasons their so low cost, your doing the rest of the work. I found the scat cranks always mic up smaller than the low of the spec. (SB chevy stuff) so expect to run H-1s for proper bearing clearance.
Mike Theroux
Mike Theroux
www.mikesportingservice.net
There is never enough time!!
www.mikesportingservice.net
There is never enough time!!
-
machine shop tom
- Guru
- Posts: 2404
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:16 pm
- Location: N L Michigan
I'm gonna quote Mike here because this is word-for-word exactly the process and findings that I have experienced.highVE wrote:David,
Whenever i get a new set of rods, i always wash them, break the capscrews loose, relube them with ARP moly, re-torque them and check the housing bores. Then i check the pin bushings as well. (most times they are tight. about .0005" Clearance for a .927" pin. i bump them up to .001" CL. On the eagle i beam rods i do the same and have found their out more than the scats. Once i found the bearing tang slot was not deep enough so as the bearing wouldn't sit all the way in the cap. That is one of the biggest reasons their so low cost, your doing the rest of the work. I found the scat cranks always mic up smaller than the low of the spec. (SB chevy stuff) so expect to run H-1s for proper bearing clearance.
Mike Theroux
tom
-
Keith Morganstein
- Guru
- Posts: 5566
- Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:19 am
- Location: MA
