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World block lifter issues

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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donclark
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World block lifter issues

Post by donclark »

When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by Keith Morganstein »

donclark wrote:When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
Not unheard of with a World Products block. Just wondering if everything was "rolled" to one side? Was the cam centerline checked?
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Can't seem to quit #-o
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by Wolfplace »

donclark wrote:When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
Yes I have seen problems
Look at the last post on the first page
This is a World SB from quite some time ago,,,,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20997

If you are correct it appears things have not changed as much as we have been led to believe lately
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by CNC BLOCKS »

When world farms their machine work [-X [-X out to the lowest bidder they get what they pay for LOL =D> =D>
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

Wolfplace wrote:
donclark wrote:When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
Yes I have seen problems
Look at the last post on the first page
This is a World SB from quite some time ago,,,,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20997

If you are correct it appears things have not changed as much as we have been led to believe lately
YA know mike, there's no need to kick me in the nuts. I wish you'd have the same quest for truthfulness for all your brands.

You had one problem years ago, and for all the 10s of 1000s of blocks we have sold, you're holding up one problem as if it's every single part. You haven't seen or touched any of our new stuff, you have no experience with it. You have no idea who this guy is, or who his machinist is. You have no idea if the block was set up correctly etc. I know I know, everyone is perfect and no one ever makes a mistake in the field.

Instantly with no further information it's our fault because we're the favorite dog to kick. I get it.
Last edited by john@bmp on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

CNC BLOCKS wrote:When world farms their machine work [-X [-X out to the lowest bidder they get what they pay for LOL =D> =D>
There is nothing in our manufacturing process done to save money. Once again, you're wrong. That is absolute bullshit. Our blocks are cast in the same factory that casts Lamborghini, Penske Racing, Ferrari, and other top brands. We don't do it because it is cheap. We have all new equipment and tooling, not because it's cheap.

So maybe instead of talking out of line, see the products before you comment. I don't know the vintage of this block in question, when it was made, etc.. It may be older stock, IDK. And I have already admitted we had problems.

You'd be making excuse after excuse for this if it were Dart.
Last edited by john@bmp on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

Don, call me. 201-403-3699 we don't need to start a circle jerk here again. You should have done that in the first place.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

Wolfplace wrote:
donclark wrote:When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
Yes I have seen problems
Look at the last post on the first page
This is a World SB from quite some time ago,,,,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20997

If you are correct it appears things have not changed as much as we have been led to believe lately
Oh, and I just called Jason, the guy who bought our block from you. He is going to be dropping the engine next week and his machine shop had absolutely zero problems. He's going to call me with the results when he gets it running. But we don't talk about those 1000s of good ones do we, just the one problem from years ago.

As coincidence would have it, I just got a call from someone who wants go buy a Ford block who lives right in your back yard. Since I only sell through dealers, shame I had to send them somewhere else. I'm sure you'll live without us, but so much for referring business your way.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by Wolfplace »

john@bmp wrote:
Wolfplace wrote:
donclark wrote:When my machinist put my new World 8.2 Ford block in his fixture, the lifter bores measured 0.030" off from being true. Has anyone else experienced this much deviation or is this an anomaly? Going to have to put bushings in to correct. Also had to cut the decks down to 8.194" to get them square.
Yes I have seen problems
Look at the last post on the first page
This is a World SB from quite some time ago,,,,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20997

If you are correct it appears things have not changed as much as we have been led to believe lately
YA know mike, there's no need to kick me in the nuts. I wish you'd have the same quest for truthfulness for all your brands.

You had one problem years ago, and for all the 10s of 1000s of blocks we have sold, you're holding up one problem as if it's every single part. You haven't seen or touched any of our new stuff, you have no experience with it. You have no idea who this guy is, or who his machinist is. You have no idea if the block was set up correctly etc. I know I know, everyone is perfect and no one ever makes a mistake in the field.

Instantly with no further information it's our fault because we're the favorite dog to kick. I get it.
John@ BMP aka JSUP
You need to quit whining about people picking on you personally.
By your own statemsnts this should have nothing to do with you
The gentleman asked a question about a World block in a tech section
I answered it

Yes I have seen a problem in the exact same area
I did not go into the other blocks I had issues with both aluminum & granted also years ago
I did not go into the fiasco recently about getting a goddamn block shipped by you on your word
I did not go into what you personally told myself & Darlene on the phone & in emails
If you insist on making an issue out of it I will be happy to air it all out in public but I prefer not too,,, this is a tech section not a friggin soapbox for your convenience

And I am not real sure what you mean about "all brands"
If I see a problem with my block of preference, or any other part for that matter I have & will so state if asked.
And yes, I call them first with any problem as Don probably should have called World assuming he did not...
Which BTW you have no part of. By your own statement you are “just a jobber” for them.

The truth be known I have yet to have any sort of issue close to something like this only small annoyances that I would like changed with my block of choice which I have both discussed with them as well as stated on more than one occasion

And to be fair, you are absolutely correct,,, no I have no idea if the block was set up correctly & no I have not seen any of World's stuff for many years yet it appears here it is again,,,

Maybe you are correct, maybe the guy set it up wrong I don't know but that does not change the fact that he is asking a simple honest question & I did set one up correctly & I saw this very problem he is asking about
Shame on me for having the audacity to answer his question
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by CNC BLOCKS »

john@bmp wrote:
CNC BLOCKS wrote:When world farms their machine work [-X [-X out to the lowest bidder they get what they pay for LOL =D> =D>
There is nothing in our manufacturing process done to save money. Once again, you're wrong. That is absolute bullshit. Our blocks are cast in the same factory that casts Lamborghini, Penske Racing, Ferrari, and other top brands. We don't do it because it is cheap. We have all new equipment and tooling, not because it's cheap.

So maybe instead of talking out of line, see the products before you comment. I don't know the vintage of this block in question, when it was made, etc.. It may be older stock, IDK. And I have already admitted we had problems.

You'd be making excuse after excuse for this if it were Dart.
Does that mean World is now machining there own blocks or is it still farmed out???
Website is up and running
http://hinksonautomotive-cncblocks.com/
Machine shop tour
http://hinksonautomotive-cncblocks.com/shop-tour/
Monthly Specials
http://hinksonautomotive-cncblocks.com/specials/
55MM babbit cam bearings with 1 hole
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

CNC BLOCKS wrote: Does that mean World is now machining there own blocks or is it still farmed out???
What difference does it make?

We do not own the machining centers, we specified tooling and QC standards.

Over the years, our blocks are produced under the same roof as some as the biggest names in the business such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, John Deere, Catapiller, Ferrari, Penske, and others. SO WHAT?!? Those companies all outsource machining, again, guess they are all junk.

We put out over 4000 performance blocks for Chrysler, I guess they were all junk too.

You need a new song, this one is getting old. WTF does this have to do with anything. If I had a drunk doing QC but was on our payroll, would that be better? Stop trying to frame the argument to make your Dart points with meaningless bullshit.
Last edited by john@bmp on Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

Wolfplace wrote:.
John@ BMP aka JSUP
You need to quit whining about people picking on you personally.
By your own statemsnts this should have nothing to do with you
The gentleman asked a question about a World block in a tech section
I answered it
First off if you think throwing that JSUP comment in is somehow hurting me, you are sadly mistaken. I wear it as a badge of honor and one of the reasons I wanted to do this with World is to restore some integrity in the market, something that was sorely lacking. We're not an say anything for a buck kinda shop. Sell people crap they don't need kinda place. You'll never hear me say "we will make more power than XYZ" if I can't prove it.

Second, there was no need for the snide last comment about things may not be changing as we were told.

Stop trying to make your comments seem benign when kicking me in the nuts by calling it "whining". You put up an old post and made a derogatory comment, so yes, that is something for me to bitch about.

Yes I have seen a problem in the exact same area
How long ago Mike? When was the last time you had one of our pieces in your hands? One or two defects and you guys are acting like it's every part.

I did not go into the other blocks I had issues with both aluminum & granted also years ago
How many and when?
I did not go into the fiasco recently about getting a goddamn block shipped by you on your word
What fiasco? You ordered, it shipped, the customer was happy. I was on the up swing learning the products, and perhaps not as versed as I am today, but it was ordered, shipped billed. I spoke to the customer, he was happy.
I did not go into what you personally told myself & Darlene on the phone & in emails
If you insist on making an issue out of it I will be happy to air it all out in public but I prefer not too,,, this is a tech section not a friggin soapbox for your convenience
Whatever.
And I am not real sure what you mean about "all brands"
If I see a problem with my block of preference, or any other part for that matter I have & will so state if asked.
And yes, I call them first with any problem as Don probably should have called World assuming he did not...
Which BTW you have no part of. By your own statement you are “just a jobber” for them.
I have a card with the BMP/World logo. I have an extention at the shop. I speak for the company, and I make decisions within my area. If I choose to take my pay in one form or another, that has no bearing on anything it's a personal decision. Now you're just being petty.
The truth be known I have yet to have any sort of issue close to something like this only small annoyances that I would like changed with my block of choice which I have both discussed with them as well as stated on more than one occasion
Well Mike, if you haven't come across a part with more than a minor problem, you haven't done enough work. Despite what CNC thinks, 200 blocks a year is peanuts. Try doing 20,000 let me know how that works out.
And to be fair, you are absolutely correct,,, no I have no idea if the block was set up correctly & no I have not seen any of World's stuff for many years yet it appears here it is again,,,

Maybe you are correct, maybe the guy set it up wrong I don't know but that does not change the fact that he is asking a simple honest question & I did set one up correctly & I saw this very problem he is asking about
Shame on me for having the audacity to answer his question
You're right Mike, my points were right.

Maybe BHJ jig he was using was off. We use Rottler to blueprint our block, in our opinion, a far more accurate method. I guarantee you if this block was put in a Rottler, it would have lined up. Everyone has their preferred method. Nothing wrong with BHJ, we just like the Rottler.

We try to bring the blocks as close to spec as physically possible to reduce machining costs to the customer. Other companies make everything small so the entire block has to be machined, putting more money in the machinist pockets. I understand how as a machinists it's better to do a lot more work, and a lot more money in their pockets. I get that. That would explain the choices.

When companies don't finish the block at the factory, and make everything small, if a lifter bore is off at an angle and you have to machine the entire block, at great costs to the customer, a mistake like this, if there was a mistake, would go unnoticed.

We do all our cam bearings in different sizes, other companies do just one because it's easier and cheaper, they scrap less blocks. Your QC can be more lax when you do that. Anything smaller then spec is good in that world. Screw the customer, if they have to pay for it. Good for machine shops though.

When you do this, make everything small holes, so that the entire block needs to be machined, you can be off multiple thousands and it won't matter. In our case when you manufacture to factory tolerances, you have to be a lot closer, it's more expensive, and has more waste. We are trying to thread the needle in tenths in the cam bearing, lifter bores, and mains. What you get from us is a factory spec block. Just so you know, your "block of choice" does not do that.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by IMCADW »

Dude, you don't know when to take your ball and stick and go home. Your people skills really suck. Does World know you're being a jacka$$ at their expense on the internet?
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by john@bmp »

IMCADW wrote:Dude, you don't know when to take your ball and stick and go home. Your people skills really suck. Does World know you're being a jacka$$ at their expense on the internet?
So let me get this straight.....

CNC can continually throw up for YEARS about "does world own their own facilities" and accuse of of taking the cheap way out, when in reality it's just the opposite, and that's ok but defending it and correcting the record is not. Who is the jack ass here?

Mike can make snide comments like "seems like the problems aren't fixed" and that's ok, but addressing it is not. Who's the jack ass here. Pointing out a problem is one thing, following it up with a kick in the nuts is another.

I guess I'm not supposed to have a say here and just let people trash away with out right lies and distortions. That makes me a jack ass.

Got it.

Both these guys are going back YEARS with one or two problems they had with a block which has no bearing in reality of what we have now. I submit that our blocks are better fit and finished than their treasured brand, that they get to bill big bucks for to machine, than they will admit. Follow the money. When one brand makes you a pocket full of money, there's a reason to like it.
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Re: World block lifter issues

Post by af2 »

john@bmp wrote:
IMCADW wrote:
Mike can make snide comments like "seems like the problems aren't fixed"

Both these guys are going back YEARS with one or two problems they had with a block which has no bearing in reality of what we have now. I submit that our blocks are better fit and finished than their treasured brand, that they get to bill big bucks for to machine, than they will admit. Follow the money. When one brand makes you a pocket full of money, there's a reason to like it.
John, Quit while you're ahead!!!!
Mike does not call out a product unless he himself had a problem. He does not charge more than a shop with lesser machines to do a job. (I have checked this to be true) Mike is not set on any product but will tell you what he likes like anyone else in the business.
Just like when I went to him to buy the Yella Terra rockers. I never sensed it as being a bad move even though he sells Jessel and T&D.
Mike is very reserved until someone pisses him off and I think you found that spot.
Time to chill and assess what World is going to do with their name.
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