Chevrolet 348 / 409

[autogear]

We've done several gearboxes for W-engined cars and trucks; they may be dinosaurs, but boy can they tear up some parts. Kudos to the guys who keep them alive and keep pushing the envelope. Keeping a throwback engine or trans' development going is often met with a lot of laughing, and "why bother?" And sometimes they're right. But when it works and works well, it feels great.

The guy who did the single plane intake is Aubrey Bruneau I do believe.

[rocks409]

Truckedup---- yes, that was me. OK deal????? that was a great deal for you. I miss that old truck.

[140Air]

409's have a strong cool-factor in street rods. It's nice to see unique engines modified and all dressed up.

Plus 409s are truly immortal. They have the romantic image from the era complete with one of the century's best songs. As for their competition history, the most powerful engines don't always win the championships especially in arenas where big buck operations dominate. A wonderful example was Penske and Donahue with the Z28 302 vs the Tunnel Port and Boss Mustangs. Two years in a row the engine with less power won because it was in the hands of a superior team.
BTW, I judge the 409 by the Z11. She's Like Heaven, My Z11.

[novadude]

Keeping a throwback engine or trans' development going is often met with a lot of laughing, and "why bother?" And sometimes they're right. But when it works and works well, it feels great.

If you consider how many years they've been gone from production cars, SBC, BBC, SBF, Mopar LA, RB, etc are ALL "throwback" engines.

[Truckedup]

Truckedup---- yes, that was me. OK deal????? that was a great deal for you. I miss that old truck.

Ok, great deal I changed it from auto to 4 speed stick with a 3,42 posi rear.Then got a pair of Japanese car leather bucket seats for cheap money.It was fun..A guy wanted it so got sold last year.

A friend in New Hampshire bought a genuine new in the crate GM fully loaded dual quad 409 about 10 years ago.It's not seized and the guy said was a bit expensive.


Come on,the song is playing.... Giddy Yap Giddy Yap 409

[BrazilianZ28Camaro]

Thinking about the beveled pistons, looks like the ignited charge pressure would be considerably directed to the cylinder wall due the fact this same pressure is being applied diagonally in relation the the piston movement.

What you guys think? Could be this a power robbing problem?

Anyway, let the song play.....

She so fine / my four-o-nine

[rocks409]

The cyl design may be a power robber but,,, it is what it is. I can name at least 4 members over on the 348-409.com site that run in the 9s with heavy cars, many in the 10s and in the coming year , 2 will be in the 9.20 to 9.30 range. I realize that there are lots of sbc, mopar and sbf that are much quicker. But, I don't think anybody has as much fun as we do. I know this thread has about run its course so thanks to those who had some positive things to say about the old W motors.

[Dan Timberlake]

Plus 409s are truly immortal. They have the romantic image from the era complete with one of the century's best songs. .......................

========================

I figure if this was playing real loud on a modern sound system aboard a 61 bubble top while running thru the gears it would be worth about 100 RWHP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16qsYreBJZE
( I sure hope it was Brian's choice to be blocked out of most of the shots)

[lorax]

Plus 409s are truly immortal. They have the romantic image from the era complete with one of the century's best songs. .......................

========================

I figure if this was playing real loud on a modern sound system aboard a 61 bubble top while running thru the gears it would be worth about 100 RWHP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16qsYreBJZE
( I sure hope it was Brian's choice to be blocked out of most of the shots)

One thing for sure about that period, iits amazing as many of us lived as we did. Two and a half tons of pudding on a cloud suspension, reciprocating ball and screw steering with 3 turns lock to lock, and 24" steering wheel, with one hand because the other was busy shifting, drum brakes, bias ply tires. I get shivers and goose bumps just writing this. Thanks goodness Chevron white pump was under 25 cents a gallon.

[novadude]

One thing for sure about that period, iits amazing as many of us lived as we did. Two and a half tons of pudding on a cloud suspension, reciprocating ball and screw steering with 3 turns lock to lock, and 24" steering wheel, with one hand because the other was busy shifting, drum brakes, bias ply tires. I get shivers and goose bumps just writing this. Thanks goodness Chevron white pump was under 25 cents a gallon.

3-turns lock-to-lock? No way! My '65 Chevy II is almost FIVE turns lock-to-lock with the manual Saginaw reciprocating ball. Yes, I still have the 24" steering wheel, and one hand is always busy rowing the Muncie, while the other is on that spaghetti-thin school bus steering wheel. That's when cars were built for MEN!



I will say that 350-400 hp feels like a whole lot more, simply 'cause you are so busy trying to drive these old cars. My Vortec head, hyd roller 355 street engine feels like a monster in this car. 400 hp is downright mundane in something that has a suspension designed in the last 40 years.

[lorax]

I sold my Biscanye and bought a 1967 Nova with a 350hp/327 and thought I had bought a slot car. Sold the Nova and bought a 69 Z and knew for sure I bought a slot car. Looking back, they all should gotten me killed, although the odds did increase in my favor a little with each car. At least the Z had front discs and something that resembled decent suspension,
If I had them today, I could have retired 5 years earlier.

[novadude]

At least the Z had front discs and something that resembled decent suspension,

My Nova has 69-72 Chevelle power discs, but I would never say that the early Chevy II front end resembled decent suspension!

[Chargermal]

Lorax. I don't see where PackardV8 said that Ws dominated 1961 , only that Chevy won the 1961 NASCAR Championship. Having said that, its really none of my business. Not concerned about 409s of the past, only the 409s of today and tomorrow. The future is bright for us 409 guys.

Yes, the future is bright! A few years ago there were hardly any aftermarket parts available but today you can get anything you need, even a new aluminum block.
I gather that the 348/409 was more of a contender on the dragstrip but they did win a few on the big oval.
Here's a list I copied...

1960... Junior Johnson wins the Daytona 500

1960... Rex White was the NASCAR Champion driving his 1960 348 Chevrolet Bel Airs

1961... Bill Patterson was the NHRA A Stock class Champion at the '61 Winternationals with his 348 1960 Impala.

1961... Ned Jarrett wins the Nascar Championship

1961... Frank Saunders wins Super Stock at the Winternationals

1961... Don Nicholson wins Stock Eliminator at the Winternationals

1962... Don Nicholson wins Stock Eliminator at the Winternationals again

1962... Hayden Proffitt wins Stock Eliminator at Indianapolis

1962... Dave Strickler wins SS/S at the US Nationals

1962... Winternationals B/Stock Terry Prince 60 348

1963... Winternationals A/Stock Strickler/Jenkins 62 409

1963... Winternationals L/P Franks Sanders 63 Z-11

1963... Winternationals B/FX Dick Harrell 62 409 w/z-11 top

1963... AHRA Winternat. S/S Dick Harrell 63 Z-11

1963... Summernationals A/FX & Strickler/Jenkins 63 Z-11
Little Eliminator

Sanders (L/P 63 Winters) and Dickie Harrell(B/FX Winters) were both DQ’d taking the runner ups with them.

You’ll notice in the attached pic the 63 Winters B/FX class result has been omitted - Harrell was one of those unfortunate few like Nicholson and Gay who were presented with the trophy and THEN got the bad news.

Sanders went through hell - First the Z11s got put into L/MP rather than S/S due to build #s - and then the techs went to town...DQ’ing him for incorrect cyl volume and valve height.

Worse, back then if the winner was DQ’d...the class or Eliminator was dumped.

https://skunwerksmoparsuperstock.files ... f0de3.jpeg