Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

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Theodore Rimspoke
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Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

Hi, new guy from Norway here,

For some time I've been doing a bit of research on Volvo's old V8 from the fifties, the forgotten B36AV. This cute little engine was used in a couple of trucks (L420 Snabbe and L430 Trygge) from 1956 to 1966. The engine was also modified for marine use as the Volvo Penta AQ180.
The B36 was developed from a protype engine called B8B, an engine used in the concept car Philip. I've read somewhere that Volvo's management bought a closed production line from a manufacturer in the US in the early fifties. Unfortunately my source doesn't mention which manufacturer.

I have six complete B36 engines in my collection, including the engine in my L430 truck and a cut-through engine I bought from Volvo's industrial museum in Skövde, Sweden back in 2006.

My research project consists of two sub-projects:

Sub-project #1:
From which US car/engine manufacturer does the B8B engine origin?
I guess that "closed production line" is somewhat misleading. My assumption is that the Volvo guys bought a prototype production line that never came into regular production.
The B8B and also the B36 have many similarities with the first generation of modern american V8 engines that was issued in the late forties/early fifties, for example Cadillac, Oldsmobile and Studebaker. Even the early prototypes from Chevrolet and Kaiser have many similarities with the little Swedish engines.

Below I will list the main characteristics for the Volvo engine:
-Deep skirted Y-block design
-Air gap intake manifold
-Siamesed exhaust senter ports
-Self locking valve adjustment screws (like Studebaker)
-Shaft-mounted rocker arms
-Oil pump mounted on the rear main bearing housing
-Separate thrust washers on bearing no 5
-Water distribution pipes pressed into the heads to lead water to the hot areas around the exhaust valves
-Separate oil filter canister (B8B)
-"Semi-integrated" oil filter canister mounted top rear, next to the distributor (B36AV)
-Carter WGD manual choke 2-barrel carb
-Fuel pump mounted top front, on the oil filler tube
-Extensive use of aluminum. Water pump, timing cover, intake manifold, oil filler tube etc

The B8B prototype engine has some ribs on the valve covers not found on the B36. Perhaps these ribs can help me with the origin issue.

Some technical specifications:
Bore: 3,3125
Stroke: 3,1496
Displacement: 217 cu.in.
Output: 120hp
Main bearing diameter: 2,4977
Rod bearing diameter: 2,1299

Sub-project #2:
Complete rebuild!
This is hard. No parts available for the lower part of the engine. I've spent some hours in the Clevite online catalog looking for bearings that are almost identical. The main bearings are sorted out (a mix of olds 350 and buick 300). The rod bearings will be modified Volvo B18 shells narrowed down to B36 specs. Cast pistons (custom made) are most likely available from JP Pistons in Australia. Thrust washers can be custom made in bronze.
Luckily, most parts in the valvetrain are identical to the famous B18 engine. Oil filters are available from different manufacturers. The distributor cap is identical to early Mercedes V8. I have some ignition parts from a surplus sell-out. And finally I've bought a couple of carburetor repair kits from The Carburetor Doctor (carbkitsource.com).

Some pictures:

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As you understand, I need help from the forums expertise to shed some light on the B8B origin question. Of course I will try to question the different Volvo resources in Sweden as well, but they are, sorry to say, not very talkative.

By the way, feel free to correct my English, it's not my everyday language :)

Thanks,

Theodore Rimspoke
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by PackardV8 »

Very similar to the Generation I Kettering V8s, including Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Studebaker and Packard V8s. Dimensionally, and in several respects, including the fuel pump drive, it's very close to the '51-54 Studebaker 232" V8. However, Studebaker used a gear driven cam. None of the US V8s with which I'm familiar use that type thrust bearing.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

My thoughts as well Jack.

Perhaps the B8B is one of the rejected prototypes. But still good enough for a small Swedish manufacturer.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

Hmmm, some of the pics didn't turn out the way I wanted. I'll try to resize tomorrow :)
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by pdq67 »

Stude, too many head-bolts and the oil filter was up top front.

Water pump housing is sorta like the Cad and Stude.

Don't think the Stude was a "Y"-block.

Solid lifter cam that was gear driven.

I am with Jack, it's a "mixed design" engine.

I am not familiar enough with the 303 Olds and the 331 Cad to say much about them and I figure the big Packard is a "large x huge" engine as well as probably too new?

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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Cubic_Cleveland »

Not really related to your research, but have you priced those JP Pistons? A customer bought me some years ago, and the price was comparable with a custom forged piston, but the quality definitely wasn't...
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by The Radius Kid »

The Nazis didn't lose WWII,they just changed uniforms.Now they run the place.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

Yes, the Stude has too many head-bolts in the production version, but do we know anything about their "scrapped" prototypes?

I think we need to go behind the scene like Michael Lamm did in his book Chevrolet 1955 - Creating the Original. In this book Lamm tells us about the the Ed Kelly prototypes of Kettering design before Ed Cole arrived.

My source stating that Volvo purchased a "scrapped" production line in the US is a book I bought from the Volvo Industrial Museum in Skövde (the place Volvo had and has their engine plant). I therefore consider it more reliable than the turbobrick- and even the Volvo-thread.

The PRV V6-engine has nothing to do with the old V8, even though it was ment to be a V8 in the first place, hence the 90 degree angle between the banks.

Actually, Volvo did make some cast iron V8 prototypes for their new 240/260 back in the early seventies, but that's another story :)
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

Cubic_Cleveland wrote:Not really related to your research, but have you priced those JP Pistons? A customer bought me some years ago, and the price was comparable with a custom forged piston, but the quality definitely wasn't...
I don't expect the cast pistons to be as good as a forged JE custom piston, but I expect them to stand normal use in a low compression engine (7.6:1). Can you specify the problems C_C? Perhaps I must go the forged path after all.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Caprimaniac »

Theodore; interesting Project.

And sorry I cannot help you With the first. However, you have come to the right Place for help. There are a couple of other forums too, but the persons you find there probably will look here too....

On part 2: As I remember, there are Companies doing one-off custom bearings. I know Sarpsborg Motor, yes- they're in Sarpsborg, used to do that (or most likely had a contact doing it for them.) Might be Worth to contact them.


BTW strange thing about us Norwegians and the Swedes; we usually make fun of them, always try to do better than them and sometimes look Down on them... But when it comes to Volvo, we seem to like it even more than the Swedes do and in that respect we seem to grab & hug those Swedes really tight! Maybe it comes Down to the lack of Norwegian car manufacturers.

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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Cubic_Cleveland »

Theodore Rimspoke wrote:
Cubic_Cleveland wrote:Not really related to your research, but have you priced those JP Pistons? A customer bought me some years ago, and the price was comparable with a custom forged piston, but the quality definitely wasn't...
I don't expect the cast pistons to be as good as a forged JE custom piston, but I expect them to stand normal use in a low compression engine (7.6:1). Can you specify the problems C_C? Perhaps I must go the forged path after all.
Just the sizing was ok, not great, the finish was average and the piston design and ring package was basic. I felt for the money spent he could have got a better, more modern piston design. Sure the pistons will work, but I'd just check the pricing compared to a forging, maybe things have changed, maybe they haven't.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by BCjohnny »

Sorry, can't help with any specifics, just a couple of thoughts.....

One parameter that could shed some light on the origin of the "scrapped" US production line would be the bore centres. It's one of the things manufacturers have historically been loathe to change (tooling costs etc) without good reason, so if you can measure that, and compare it to earlier/contemporary US manufacturers it might give you some clues.

Also I wouldn't undrestimate the chances of it being a relatively home grown design, maybe loosely based on a US design that was passed over, but redesigned to suit what Volvo already had, tooling wise, the tooling procured from the US, Europen component manufacturers existing tooling and the intended market, etc etc.

Interesting thread, good luck with it.
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

Caprimaniac wrote:Theodore; interesting Project.

And sorry I cannot help you With the first. However, you have come to the right Place for help. There are a couple of other forums too, but the persons you find there probably will look here too....

On part 2: As I remember, there are Companies doing one-off custom bearings. I know Sarpsborg Motor, yes- they're in Sarpsborg, used to do that (or most likely had a contact doing it for them.) Might be Worth to contact them.


BTW strange thing about us Norwegians and the Swedes; we usually make fun of them, always try to do better than them and sometimes look Down on them... But when it comes to Volvo, we seem to like it even more than the Swedes do and in that respect we seem to grab & hug those Swedes really tight! Maybe it comes Down to the lack of Norwegian car manufacturers.

RuneS
Hi,

Yes, i've been in contact with the guys in Sarpsborg, and no they don't make babbit bearings for my engine. And there is no need, Olds and Buick will do fine after a line bore :)

I've been a Volvo- and Sweden-fan most of my life and never make fun of Swedes (that's not entirely true, I did it once in Afghanistan when their helicopters were grounded due to strange reasons day after day after day)
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Theodore Rimspoke »

BCjohnny wrote:Sorry, can't help with any specifics, just a couple of thoughts.....

One parameter that could shed some light on the origin of the "scrapped" US production line would be the bore centres. It's one of the things manufacturers have historically been loathe to change (tooling costs etc) without good reason, so if you can measure that, and compare it to earlier/contemporary US manufacturers it might give you some clues.

Also I wouldn't undrestimate the chances of it being a relatively home grown design, maybe loosely based on a US design that was passed over, but redesigned to suit what Volvo already had, tooling wise, the tooling procured from the US, Europen component manufacturers existing tooling and the intended market, etc etc.

Interesting thread, good luck with it.
Thanks :)

The bore spacing is approx 4.3315 inches or 110,02 mm. That is the best I could do with a digital vernier caliper. It's actually not far from SBC dimensions.

Volvo was not a wealthy company back in the late forties and early fifties, so my guess is that the prototype engine only was subject to minor changes before it's service in Philip in 52/53. This is exiting!
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Re: Volvo's forgotten V8 engine

Post by Caprimaniac »

Theodore Rimspoke wrote:I've been a Volvo- and Sweden-fan most of my life and never make fun of Swedes (that's not entirely true, I did it once in Afghanistan when their helicopters were grounded due to strange reasons day after day after day)
Genuinly like Swedes & Sweden myself, but now and then a good Swede- joke .... And sometimes- but not this year (since the Norwegians have dominated a bit too much) I can make fun of them in XCskiing, while they keep loosing... Sorry to hear about their helicopter- troubles in Afghanistan.

The line- bore idea sounds good. But why couldn't they make the bearings? If they announce they can make (it doesn't state ANY...) custom bearings... Strange.
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