Torque Monster Dodge V10

[CamKing]

I've reground a few of these for my customer's tow vehicles.
Here's what we ground them to:
HR65327-66316-114
208/212 @ .050"
.327"/.316" Lobe Lift
114 LSA

Mike, thanks for wandering in here and sharing your experiences.

I am learning a bit more about the cam designs available for these engines. Most common cams seem to be ground on 114 centerline. The stock cam is ground on 117.5 centerline. (no I haven't degreed the stock cam yet). What should be the main differences in having the cam on a 114 vs 117?

When I regrind it, I'm lowering the intake centerline, so the intake valve will close sooner. and build more cylinder pressure. I'm also lowering the exhaust centerline, so the exhaust opens later, and extends the power stroke. Both of these things will help with low-mid range power, and hurt power above 4,600, but that's not an issue in your application.

[Fusion Works]

[
When I regrind it, I'm lowering the intake centerline, so the intake valve will close sooner. and build more cylinder pressure. I'm also lowering the exhaust centerline, so the exhaust opens later, and extends the power stroke. Both of these things will help with low-mid range power, and hurt power above 4,600, but that's not an issue in your application.

Don't I run into issues with not holding the intake valve open long enough to take extra advantage of the intake flow inertia at the bottom of the stroke? How much overlap does your design have?

[CamKing]

Don't I run into issues with not holding the intake valve open long enough to take extra advantage of the intake flow inertia at the bottom of the stroke? How much overlap does your design have?

Yes, above 4,600rpm.
from seat to seat, 34 degrees of overlap.

[peejay]

I will allow that I was involved with a stroked 5.9 in a van. Due to space and emissions-friendliness constraints we had to keep the OE intake manifold so it didn't make much more power than stock. Maaaybe it made 300hp. But the engine felt like it made that power EVERYWHERE. Accidentally lit the tires up rolling into the throttle at 50mph while breaking in the engine.

So, your goals may be meetable (if that isn't a word it is now), but all the same I'd avoid bumping the compression up very far, especially on an engine that long where hot spots can happen more easily. The order of the day is power that you can put your foot in and hold there for minutes at a time, not moments.

[wyrmrider]

above you asked if you are missing anything
yes
you can't compare Mopar Performance or Dodge Shop Manual cam specs with anything else- except lift
Stick with Cam King he's spot on about where to change the timing points
ask him about target compression
can you go .020 over- if so do so- stay away from .040
That chamber is a dual quench ask Mike how much valve relief from 0 deck
quite frankly it is hard to buy better valves than factory-- BVVC if these are Real Dodge Truck valves
see if the chrome is worn on the stems if so they are passenger car style The HD style is Industrial Hard Chrome and do not wear through
IDK about V10 Valves but thinking of Dodge TrucK HD

[Fusion Works]

above you asked if you are missing anything
yes
you can't compare Mopar Performance or Dodge Shop Manual cam specs with anything else- except lift
Stick with Cam King he's spot on about where to change the timing points
ask him about target compression
can you go .020 over- if so do so- stay away from .040
That chamber is a dual quench ask Mike how much valve relief from 0 deck
quite frankly it is hard to buy better valves than factory-- BVVC if these are Real Dodge Truck valves
see if the chrome is worn on the stems if so they are passenger car style The HD style is Industrial Hard Chrome and do not wear through
IDK about V10 Valves but thinking of Dodge TrucK HD

Camshaft opening points are opening points. The manual simply states them. I would like to know how to process them however? I am going to talk to Mike, but I want to get head flow numbers first.

With Sonic testing why not go .040? It opens the chamber and unshrouds the valves if I take advantage of the extra space on the sides of the chambers?

Yes, I like the stock valves, figured they were much better quality than most of the Aftermarket parts. I hope the exhaust valves are in good shape. Even Sealed Power exhaust valves are $18 a pop. I wonder if they are Sodium filled?

[CamKing]

Camshaft opening points are opening points. The manual simply states them.

What the manual calls opening and closing points, may not be the real opening and closing points.
Are they using .004" lifter rise?, .006" lifter rise" .010" Lifter rise? .020" lifter rise ?

[wyrmrider]

Chrysler is unique
they do not use "lifter rise"
they work from the blueprint and determine what today would be called a ramp height
I was told it was where the clearance ramp changed to opening ramp
Then they arbitrarily add 8 degrees to that duration or 4 degrees to the opening and closing data points
THEY are consistent and you can compare factory cams to Mopar performance
more than that you need a CAM DOC
BTW
YOU need a CAM DOC to compare all cams- there have been discussions on effect of lash for example
good call on the flows
I've never sonic tested a V10 but line bored/ bored/ honed a few be interested in what you find out this is a TRUCK and I don't think an extra .020 or .040 would help
still see crosshatch on the bores?
you'd think you could bore a 360 to 340 (+.040) size and be good to go but I've found that ring seal suffers especially those that think that 4.040 + .030 is a good idea- it's not

[Fusion Works]

Chrysler is unique
they do not use "lifter rise"
they work from the blueprint and determine what today would be called a ramp height
I was told it was where the clearance ramp changed to opening ramp
Then they arbitrarily add 8 degrees to that duration or 4 degrees to the opening and closing data points
THEY are consistent and you can compare factory cams to Mopar performance
more than that you need a CAM DOC
BTW
YOU need a CAM DOC to compare all cams- there have been discussions on effect of lash for example
good call on the flows

Well damn, when 2+2 stop equaling 4? Obviously in the cam game. Be nice if SAE designed a standard so the rest of us could actually compare parts. Ok, so my numbers mean squat, now.

I've never sonic tested a V10 but line bored/ bored/ honed a few be interested in what you find out this is a TRUCK and I don't think an extra .020 or .040 would help
still see crosshatch on the bores?
you'd think you could bore a 360 to 340 (+.040) size and be good to go but I've found that ring seal suffers especially those that think that 4.040 + .030 is a good idea- it's not

I have to bore it to clean it up from the detonation damaged pistons. So figured I would go for as much displacement as possible within reason. .040 was recommended by a machinist friend. I figured it would give a decent clean up and bore straightening. I was going to sonic test it just to make sure. Does the bore wall become that instable once bored? Of the blocks you line honed, how bad were they? Did you notice any weird issues with them when honing? Weird distortion not commonly seen in the shorter V8s? I did score a iron torque plate to get the bores round when honing.

Thank you to everyone who has taken their time to respond to my questions,.

[wyrmrider]

check the bearings when you dis-assemble
most likely you will NOT need a line hone
you do not gain enough cu in with overbore to use up your block- this is not a "heads UP" build like say superstock where every cu in and everything else matters
do measure all four corners of the block to see how much to take off if you have to square the block or adjust ch height
HP and in your case Torque is in the heads first, quench, compression, then cam
cheers

[Fusion Works]

Roger that. I will know more once I get it on the stand this weekend. I had to build a custom engine stand to support this beast. All of my previous engines were small aluminum four cylinders. Since this monster weighs 800+ lbs it needs a proper engine stand.

I pulled both heads off and the valvetrain and heads themselves looked Ok, just showing signs of infrequent oil changes, but no major build up inside the valve covers and top end of the engine. Looks like someone used dino oil most of its life.

Do people still use Glyptol to paint the inside of cast iron engine blocks? Looks like the block is pretty rough inside. There are some gains to be had controlling oil return to the pan.

[PackardV8]

Do people still use Glyptol to paint the inside of cast iron engine blocks?

Been discussed here before and the general consensus was not.

There are some gains to be had controlling oil return to the pan.

At 1800-3000 RPMs, not so much.

[DrillDawg]

If your going to all the trouble you are, see if you can find a torque plate to use, ring seal, compression and timing for 93 octane will get you all the low end torque you want and carry it through so your cam and ported heads can make some HP.

http://dodgeram.org/other_pages/s_belt/ ... esults.gif

[Fusion Works]

If your going to all the trouble you are, see if you can find a torque plate to use, ring seal, compression and timing for 93 octane will get you all the low end torque you want and carry it through so your cam and ported heads can make some HP.

Have a 2in thick steel Torque Plate used when these engines were running Baja and other off road racing series back in the 90s. That should work nicely simulate the head bolt stresses.

Something is wrong with your link? It says "forbidden".

I am working on piston options right now. Why is it, that most of the aftermarket hypereutectic pistons seem to use the big fat 5/64,5/64,/3/16 ring packages instead of the smaller rings? Hell the stock engine cam with nice thin 1.5,1.5,4.0mm rings. Looking at a couple of options from Keith Black and Speedpro, but they use the big old school rings. I can't see a huge benefit in using these types of pistons over a version of the stock piston in hypereutectic form. Keith Black makes a flat top four valve relief piston that should work fine, but it uses the bigger ring set, I am trying to cut friction not make it worse. And the stock pistons are lighter. Damn aftermarket.

Looking at my measurements on deck height, piston to head clearance, etc, I get less than 8.4 compression and a deck height of .060. If I machine .010 off the block (Not sure what amount screws up intake manifold fit on V engines) and run the Cometic .027 head gasket with a stock piston, that gets me right at 8.95. I would like to be up in the 9.2-9.5 range. (I realize 9.5 may be a little high on this type of motor, but the extra tight quench area should help keep the chamber motion up and mixture homogeneity high)

Is the higher compression available with the flat top type piston worth the frictional trade off of the fat ring package?

[DrillDawg]

Have you checked with Mahle, they have some real thin ring packages for some of the newer stuff.