Torque Monster Dodge V10

[Jer73]

Have you thought about adding a gear vendors under/over drive behind that trans?

[Fusion Works]

Sounds like a fun project'
Before you throw a ton of money at it,
Drop that rear gear 10 %, (instant 10% more wheel torque)
Do a little bowl and seat work, higher lift cam, get some tight quench.
Your truck will thank you.
If that doesn't get you what you're after, you haven't lost anything, go ahead and turbo/intercool it.
Oileaky

I have thought about dropping to a 3.73, but man the truck does good with the longer 3.55. First gear is HUGE.

I hope to have the heads pulled off this week to clean up and send to the flow bench.

as said 5 lbs will give you about 25% which is enough
BTW does that motor have any quench now? SBM really help with less than .050 piston to head
A centrifugal kit should be enough find someone who has already done this!!!!
as for heat
use an intercooler
do the exhaust first and report back
that also gets rid of heat

I just finished a new exhaust using dual 2.5in from the manifolds back the muffler, and a dual 3in out. Designed with Pipemax. Thanks Larry.
I don't like centrifugal superchargers for low RPM engines. They don't build power like a tow engine needs. However the Vortech I used on the last boosted S2000 worked beautifully with the power curve shape of that engine.

A big Single turbo would fit on the passenger side of the engine bay nicely. Twins would package without the cross over pipe.

X2 call camking more lift same duration - throw some high lift rockers on the intakes- you have 1.6 now if I remember correctly check retainer to stem seal and new and newer style springs
X2 on the blower, headers
BVVC on compression boost unless you can get tight quench you risk detonation DC Computer is not street friendly even with Premium IMHO- anyone else???
are you regular or premium perhaps a different premium/ regular tunes
forget .040 not worth it- you want to bore SBM as little as possible and chances are your bores are OK
Changed your timing chain (and gears)?
use OEM or Wix made oil filters
your rods are same as 5.2 and are forged- they are OK USE DC Bolts (SPS) if rebuilding"
360 bore but stroke is already more than 360 but rods the same so going to be hard finding off the shelf pistons- I would think that unless someone has a 4" stroker kit using same as 360 don't waste $$
?? are deck height the same? IDK but I may have notes somewhere as we bored and honed and did block work on some a long time ago
there was a 505 V10 with 3.96 stroke but IDK if it would fit your block Measure twice cut once 3.88 to 3.96 is only .080 not worth it unless you could score a free crank and had to rebuild anyway
might be a way to get higher compression pistons from a viper- but these may be tooo - that's way toooo high
some rods are narrower in the pin area- if you have the wide 360 kind you might have to narrow for some pistons
Engine may have premium valves- do not go to bigger cheap valves
for rockers maybe two different stud sizes??? studs???
you have to keep the cats to make sensors of computer work but you can go to hi flow cats - better muffler I'd use a 36" Maremont round turbo
computer is tough
Mustang injectors give a better pattern

When the heads come off I will get a better idea of deck height and quench potential.
I have full access to the ECU with my SCT tuner and the software to write custom tunes for my application
Pretty sure I would need to upgrade rocker studs to 7/16s , but I can put the heads on the mill and fix that problem.
No cats, any exhaust needed can be built.
I'm ok with rockers, but the stock cam is pretty small. 247/265 duration, .435 lift, 117.5 LSA A little more duration should help everything and extra lift is always good. Head flow testing will verify where the heads stop flowing.
Stock Fuel injectors are a Bosch 12hole injectors that have an excellent pattern and atomizations. I would put them on par with many of the new Denso and Bosch EV1 injectors. The older Mustang injectors are old tech.
I'll check the valves, but I doubt they are anything special> Doubt they are sodium filled or inconel. Cheap Stainless aren't going in this motor. If nothing I would do Inconel exhaust valves. I thought about going to the Viper 2.00in intake valves, but don't know that it is necessary with proper small valve prep.

I wonder if there is any major loss associated with running 1.6 rockers on the exhaust side and 1.7 on the intake side?

The "spare motor" has 199K on it and potentially two blown head gaskets according to the previous owner. I want to freshen the motor up, with a clean bore and hone, nice Hyperutectic pistons, better rings, etc. Don't necessarily have to have high compression, do however want that quench TIGHT. .040 would be middle of the road. I figure a 4in bore with .0008 piston to wall clearance and the low redline of 5500 should let me get by with . 035-.038.

Given they're operated at the same RPM and torque production, how much hotter would the combustion chamber/EGT be on the turbocharged engine versus a larger displacement higher compression cammed up NA?

Since all big trucks have been turbocharged for decades now, it would seem the way to go in a towing application.

I don't know, that is what concerns me. Combustion chamber temps under boost vs NA are bound to be higher, but that is what I am trying to learn. I have a hard time comparing diesel and gas engine combustion chamber conditions, plus the diesels are so over built compared to the HD gas engines.
Thanks for all the input guys.

Have you thought about adding a gear vendors under/over drive behind that trans?

Yes, I get conflicting info on durability, reliability, customer service, etc. It was my first thought a while back.
(now I am thinking boost, dammit, dammit)

[wyrmrider]

do your heads use studs or bridged pedestal rockers like a Magnum?
Do you have to pass smog?
good first start on the ex-- crossover or X pipe?

[wyrmrider]

worth a read
http://www.dodgeoffroad.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101

Assuming this guy is right, stock pistons are .067" in the hole. + gasket = really bad
It will be interesting what your measurements are
cc the heads
you may not even have a true 8:1

[peejay]

I agree with the sentiment of putting the 6 speed in there if the main concern is dropoff between gears. It will also be factory reliable that way, and you won't have to worry about trying to keep it cool or other issues when you try to reinvent the wheel.

Plus is is probably going to be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

[DrillDawg]

I think you maybe able to use 360 pistons and just cut a little off the top and maybe some valve reliefs.

[Truckedup]

If you don't want to supercharge then just run the engine at a higher RPM. Driving a gas engine dump truck if you want to make some speed you have to use the gearbox and keep the engine near or on the governor. You need more gears and run the engine at 3800 rpm,get an auxiliary tranny

[Fusion Works]

Alright, pulled one of the heads and measured the piston to deck clearance. Piston is in the hole .021. Compressed stock gasket thickness is .043. So yes there is some gain to be had there by bringing the piston out of the hole or up to the deck and running a thinner head gasket.

Unfortunately, there isn't much quench. Not sure why Mopar carved a huge hunk out of the chamber behind the intake valve.

DSCN6717.JPG

Not sure what the weird tit is behind the spark plug. Wonder if it a locator stud that should be removed. Chambers are pretty big. Looks like there is some room to unshroud the intake valve. The intake seats appear to be sunk into the chamber. There is some gain to be had by blending the transitions.

DSCN6718.JPG

See anything wrong with this picture?

do your heads use studs or bridged pedestal rockers like a Magnum?
Do you have to pass smog?
good first start on the ex-- crossover or X pipe?

They have studs, but there is a tie bar that connects a pair of rockers together.

No Smog here. Alabama can't spell "environmental".

The current exhaust is using a Magnaflow Xflow type muffler. Xpipe in the muffler at 110in back. I also have room to install an H-pipe at the 3rd Harmonic if I want to test it.

I agree with the sentiment of putting the 6 speed in there if the main concern is dropoff between gears. It will also be factory reliable that way, and you won't have to worry about trying to keep it cool or other issues when you try to reinvent the wheel.

Plus is is probably going to be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

The Six speed, if I can find one, is 3K just for the transmission. Not counting the new clutch , flywheel, driveshaft, etc. I currently have a brand new clutch in the truck and the five speed works well. Building an engine isn't going to hurt reliability if I do it right. (means I am not going to boost it. HAHA). I want some more HP as well. There is no reason an 8.0litree engine should only make 450ftlbs. Without going stupid with it I bet I can make 550+ ftlbs and 400+hp and still maintain awesome street and tow manners.

I think you maybe able to use 360 pistons and just cut a little off the top and maybe some valve reliefs.

Nope. Entirely different compression heights. However there are a bunch of options out there, so I am not worried about finding pistons.

If you don't want to supercharge then just run the engine at a higher RPM. Driving a gas engine dump truck if you want to make some speed you have to use the gearbox and keep the engine near or on the governor. You need more gears and run the engine at 3800 rpm,get an auxiliary tranny

The engine makes 450 ftlbs at 2400rpm factory. I bet with a bit more lift, some minor head work, proper combustion space, some friction fighting techniques, and a proper set of long tube headers, I can easily make 500+ ftlbs from 2000 -2400 and peak torque at 2800. Add some stroker crank to this and that shouldn't be an issue. Should I do crazy and pick boost, its a no brainer.

[ptuomov]

Doesn't that low compression ratio and the chamber shape just invite turbocharging the motor? The compressed charge will have more density and more energy of all kinds, so the smallish squish pads aren't going to be that much of a penalty at below the N/A torque peak. Pistons a little bit in the hole don't hurt that much either, right? With turbos, the fuel will vaporize and the chamber will have turbulence. The engine is begging to be turbocharged.

[DrillDawg]

quote from older v10 fourm......I used TRW pistons PN H116cp-30 and had .030" milled off the top of them. It may be a better idea to go with ross custom pistons. By the time you buy the trws and have them machined you have half the cost of the custom pistons and not the compression ratio that I was hoping for. If you want to stick with regular gas the way that I went is good.


360......9.600-------------3.58 x 4.00----- 6.123-------------1.687
488......9.735-------------3.88 x 4.00-----6.123 -------------1.672

Ya, your right, the stock 360 pistons are .015 taller.


More than likely a good one makes 250 hp / 325 torque to the wheels.

[pdq67]

Interesting, engine has double quench dished pistons in it. But darn near an open chambered head.

As for boost, at 14.7 pounds, you theoretically should double your output! So go from there. And if you do boost, I highly recommend forged pistons just in case.

I have trouble relating to 10 vs 8 cylinders at say 496"s like my BBC.

At about 9.5 to 1 CR., I installed Ross forged pistons, a good old CC 282S solid lifter flat-tappet cam, 2.19"/1.88" Merlin cast-iron large open chambered, oval port heads, 1.75" 4-tube, long tube el-cheapo Hedman headers, A Holley Strip Dom. and a good old 750 cfm Holley 3310-2 tuned. D2K says it should put out like 550 hp @ 5500 rpm and 580 t @ 4500 rpm so it to me it is a great big "tow-truck" engine.

I figure the same deal with two more smaller cylinders BUT don't take it to the bank..

Sorry, not much help.

pdq67

[wyrmrider]

next cc both end chambers and check all 4 corners at their TDC to see if block is square

[KnightEngines]

Say you're cruising along with an NA engine using, for example, 300ft/lbs.
Turbocharge the same engine & cruise along the same stretch of road using the same 300ft/lbs & the combustion temps will be pretty much the same.

The only time you'll get higher combustion temps is when you're using the extra torque the turbo/s give, say pulling up a hill.
For the most part it'll be brief.

Don't sweat it, run a low boost setup on the near stock engine, if you must then close up the quench a little & fit a turbo grind cam, maybe stick some better head gaskets & a set of head studs in & open up the ring gaps a little - if you boost an older motor wear will have opened up the gaps for you.

4-6psi will transform the thing.


Years ago I ran 13psi into a 9.3:1 comp iron head 308 cube engine on pump fuel, drove it in our 40 deg centigrade summer heat, in traffic etc no problem, even under boost it never had an issue, you don't need real low comp for a few psi.

[Truckedup]

If you don't want to supercharge then just run the engine at a higher RPM. Driving a gas engine dump truck if you want to make some speed you have to use the gearbox and keep the engine near or on the governor. You need more gears and run the engine at 3800 rpm,get an auxiliary tranny

The engine makes 450 ftlbs at 2400rpm factory. I bet with a bit more lift, some minor head work, proper combustion space, some friction fighting techniques, and a proper set of long tube headers, I can easily make 500+ ftlbs from 2000 -2400 and peak torque at 2800. Add some stroker crank to this and that shouldn't be an issue. Should I do crazy and pick boost, its a no brainer.

All large truck gas V8 engines make their maximum rate torque at about the same rpm, 2600-2800. But a gas engine is not a diesel and RPM is your friend.This is based on experience driving a lot of loaded gas engine 6 and 10 wheel trucks.Gas engine trucks used to have 16-20 forward gears to keep the engine running in the higher power band. Low speed torque is good for low speed, if you want to go fast and pull you need to use the rpm on a N/A engine

[Kevin Johnson]

I agree with the sentiment of putting the 6 speed in there if the main concern is dropoff between gears. It will also be factory reliable that way, and you won't have to worry about trying to keep it cool or other issues when you try to reinvent the wheel.

Plus is is probably going to be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

X2

You can go wild with the extra V10 in a motorcycle. You need a tow vehicle to be reliable rather than an ongoing project.