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DSS 427 SB Ford build

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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427dart
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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by 427dart » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:01 am

289nate wrote:7,500'ish rpm shift point piss poor little .060 over 289 torque challenged too big of induction pump gas junk on the street. Throttle response? Got to 2:20 in the video where I give it a half throttle stab from low rpm in second gear. Having a little fun before I drive it to the track early that afternoon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUqM4DPgaBg

Highway? Throw it into 5th and almost fall asleep on the way to Irwindale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbAmrVzQ2tM

An 1/8 mile pass that night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZVL3E4baYE
Love it Nate! What trans are you running and that shifter did you make that? Might want a hood pin for the glove box...had a '69 340 W-2 Dart that used to do that many years ago! :mrgreen:

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by 427dart » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:04 am

MadBill wrote:
427dart wrote:Well my 427 build runs very well on the street and has 13-14 inch of vac. Has run in the 10's at 132 with it's mild 3.50 gear. So how far from what is considered optimum is my cam pick which is a Lunati 61013 hyd. roller cam with 242/249 duration on a 112 LCA with .600 lift? Intake valve opens 13 degrees BTD. Cranking compression is 195-200 checked after 5 yrs of use.
Sounds ideal dart! What are you using for fuel and CR? Must be close to 11.0:1?
10.3 on the compression and runs OK on local pump 93.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by rfoll » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:14 am

All of this discussion in generic terms of high vs mid range is fine, but in reality, when you build an engine, you tailor it to what car it is going in, and what it is going to be used for. This engine is a Ford, and it could end up in a '66 Mustang or Falcon. It could also end up in a F250 4X4 .
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by groberts101 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:45 am

rfoll wrote:All of this discussion in generic terms of high vs mid range is fine, but in reality, when you build an engine, you tailor it to what car it is going in, and what it is going to be used for. This engine is a Ford, and it could end up in a '66 Mustang or Falcon. It could also end up in a F250 4X4 .
true.. but doesn't that go without saying? it seems doubtful that DV would be installing this motor in a pickup truck with a popup camper on back. Course, can you imagine the look on that late model Camaro owners face when he drag races them up a hill in a 4x4 pickup? Priceless! :lol:

either way, with 600 ft/lbs of midrange power on tap.. one vehicle will just smoke the tires a little easier than the other one is all. Especially if he puts it in 4 wheel drive mode. :)

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by David Vizard » Sun May 08, 2016 9:13 am

Got to visit at Chris Straub’s shop on Friday (22nd April) and was rather surprised at the extent of his operation. It seemed to me to be a very much ‘in the background deal. I was surprise to see how many products he made for big name companies. The best part of the visit though was that we got to talk cams and valve trains.
Although we had settled on event timing a few weeks back Chris held off with the actual profiles to be used as some new Glen Steyers profiles were just being finished off. Here’s the intake/exhaust profiles that will be used in the 427.
Lobe lifts 0.375/0.340
Duration at 0.004:- 302/309
Duration at 0.006:- 297/304
Duration at 0.050:- 240/248
Duration at 0.200:- 160/158
LCA 105
Intake Centerline:- To be set up on dyno with Jesel adjustable belt drive.
So that those of us who are more used to seeing the seat duration quoted at 0.006 I have included both the 0.004 that Glen Steyers uses and the 0.006 used by most of the industry.
These profiles were decided on both for output and street reliability. Part of the requirements of a reliable hydraulic roller valve train is to use lifters that promote reliability. As far as reliable rollers for a performance setup Chris’s experience mirror’s mine. Unless you know what you are buying there is a very good chance you may end up with a set of lifters that just won’t take the loads seen in a 7000 rpm motor lifting the valves up to near 0.700. Chris’s choice here was to use the Morel lifters and that, from my own experience, was a choice I had no trouble going with.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by MadBill » Sun May 08, 2016 11:53 am

David, have you considered also testing a well-thought out alternative cam targeted to the same goals, perhaps only a different lobe design with similar valve events and lifts but say concave Vs. convex flanks?
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by David Vizard » Sun May 08, 2016 5:29 pm

MadBill wrote:David, have you considered also testing a well-thought out alternative cam targeted to the same goals, perhaps only a different lobe design with similar valve events and lifts but say concave Vs. convex flanks?
Bill,
The principle reason I spent so much time researching cam events for optimal results was so that I could be at or reasonably near the bulls eye first time. These roller cams cost big bucks these days. This is a gaol that is being sought by cam grinders who have more business than they can handle - two that come to mind are Jonesy and of course Chris Straub.

DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by cstraub » Tue May 10, 2016 6:06 pm

David Vizard wrote:Got to visit at Chris Straub’s shop on Friday (22nd April) and was rather surprised at the extent of his operation. It seemed to me to be a very much ‘in the background deal. I was surprise to see how many products he made for big name companies. The best part of the visit though was that we got to talk cams and valve trains.
Although we had settled on event timing a few weeks back Chris held off with the actual profiles to be used as some new Glen Steyers profiles were just being finished off. Here’s the intake/exhaust profiles that will be used in the 427.
Lobe lifts 0.375/0.340
Duration at 0.004:- 302/309
Duration at 0.006:- 297/304
Duration at 0.050:- 240/248
Duration at 0.200:- 160/158
LCA 105
Intake Centerline:- To be set up on dyno with Jesel adjustable belt drive.
So that those of us who are more used to seeing the seat duration quoted at 0.006 I have included both the 0.004 that Glen Steyers uses and the 0.006 used by most of the industry.
These profiles were decided on both for output and street reliability. Part of the requirements of a reliable hydraulic roller valve train is to use lifters that promote reliability. As far as reliable rollers for a performance setup Chris’s experience mirror’s mine. Unless you know what you are buying there is a very good chance you may end up with a set of lifters that just won’t take the loads seen in a 7000 rpm motor lifting the valves up to near 0.700. Chris’s choice here was to use the Morel lifters and that, from my own experience, was a choice I had no trouble going with.
DV
David,
Thank you very much. I've enjoyed "under the radar" for years but with the internet each year that gets harder and harder to do. I appreciate the opportunity and look forward to the future sir.
Chris Straub
Performance Mfg.
http://www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by David Vizard » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:39 pm

Have not abandoned this thread. The reality is that I have got into it deeper since Chris shipped the cam.

I expected this build to go as hitch free as all the other DSS builds I have done but not so in this case. This through no fault of DSS, is what has happened. some how I forgot to ask fot the piston to deck cleaance to be set to 0.010 out of the block. the normal deal is 0.020 in the hole. Of course I find this as I am taking photos of the cam install and the VP clearances. What this now means is that I have to get some custom head gaskets an strp the TFS TW- R heads and machine the chambers from 64 to 57 to get the CR to that required to go with the cam Chris cut for me.
Getting that CR to cam spec is quite critical toward making the torque/cube target.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by groberts101 » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:21 pm

Cometic has shelf gaskets all the way down to .027 thick.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by 427dart » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:28 pm

David Vizard wrote:Have not abandoned this thread. The reality is that I have got into it deeper since Chris shipped the cam.

I expected this build to go as hitch free as all the other DSS builds I have done but not so in this case. This through no fault of DSS, is what has happened. some how I forgot to ask fot the piston to deck cleaance to be set to 0.010 out of the block. the normal deal is 0.020 in the hole. Of course I find this as I am taking photos of the cam install and the VP clearances. What this now means is that I have to get some custom head gaskets an strp the TFS TW- R heads and machine the chambers from 64 to 57 to get the CR to that required to go with the cam Chris cut for me.
Getting that CR to cam spec is quite critical toward making the torque/cube target.
DV
What compression are you aiming for? Interesting on the cam duration specs at .050 sounds about like my cam at 242/249 but which the LCA is 112.
That will be a lumpy sounding cam on 105! My cranking compression is in the 195/200 range with 10.3 compression.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by clevo » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:02 am

Did this build ever get completed ?
Downunder

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by Momus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:46 pm

clevo wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:02 am
Did this build ever get completed ?
Ditto.

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Re: DSS 427 SB Ford build

Post by 68fastback » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:45 pm

Did this build ever get finished and dyno'd?

Also, any news about the Ford Windsor book David is putting together?

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