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Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ???

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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ozmuscleowner
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Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ???

Post by ozmuscleowner » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:24 pm

Ok so I want to put some hydraulic roller lifters in my big block chev

I understand that they valve train is very heavy compared to say LS engines, so I know I need a good quality roller lifter...OR do I....?

So my supplier in Australia tells me that I need to purchase Morel Pro Hydraulic Lifters , this engine is a 454 chev, 249,256 At 50 hydraulic roller with109 degress LSA He said with the pro hydraulic lifters I can run 150-180 on the seat and up to 380 ish on the nose

I can get a set of new Comp roller lifters not the short travel ones for about $350 AUD (from a guy who purchased the wrong ones)whereas the Morels @$1000 AUD..brand new...(yes $650 is cheap insurance but why spend it there)

I was going to use the Comp Short Travels, ship them in from Summit racing or wherever for about the $800 AUD mark,, but one of my suppliers has told me to stay away from them, he said they are very hard to set up use a 0-30 oil...(in a big block chev???) then I get scared,.... too light an oil grade for a street engine

Can anybody help me ??

28 years in the trade as a mechanic and performance engine builder makes me question the whole of what I really need, I have used Howard s(morels) in small blocks as retrofits and no problems but the 3/8 valve and heavy valve train of the Big block has sent me here to ask you guys with way more experience than I have here.....

Can anybody shed some light, what do I use... I want to turn the engine no more than 6500 to 7000 rpm.

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by Walter R. Malik » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:06 am

Personally, in my opinion after using several sets of all of 'em over the years ... The "short travel" Comps are pretty decent but, I would definitely stay away from their normal full travel hydraulic roller lifters, if you have a choice.

You will get what you pay for here...
http://www.rmcompetition.com
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by Orr89rocz » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:28 pm

Run the morels and you'll most likely need closer to 180-200 lbs seat and 450-500 open depening how high you plan on revving and what valvesize

Morels will handle that. If morel makes a hi performance version thats not limited travel like they do for the sbc they will work fine.

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:29 pm

All you have to do is measure both set of lifters. That will tell you the quality control they both have. Morels with the right valvetrain parts can go 7000 rpm plus.
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:51 pm

If you want the Morel quality without paying for the name then you may want to talk to Doug Herbert http://www.herbertcams.com/hydraulic-roller/
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:21 pm

GARY C wrote:If you want the Morel quality without paying for the name then you may want to talk to Doug Herbert http://www.herbertcams.com/hydraulic-roller/
Doesn't really matter who you buy it from they are getting a well made lifter. Now after the sale comes customer support and tech advice. That's worth it to some people.
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ozmuscleowner
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by ozmuscleowner » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:30 pm

I know there are only two manufacturers in the world that make them, except for the obvious chinese copies, but I mean the ones that most engine builders will use not the average joe that doesn't know better., ill look at the Herberts later, thanks for that..

I'm still steering towards the Morels as I think if I had a lifter failure its going to cost more than the difference in price anyway..

Has anybody used the short travel comps...simply as I have reads a few Hot Rod magazine etc etc articles on them??.....did you have any luck??

or do I just use the Pro Hydraulics morels

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by bigjoe1 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:37 pm

I have used the Comp Cams stuff with no problems what so ever. Maybe I am the only one out there.


JOE SHERMAN RACING

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:46 pm

ozmuscleowner wrote:I know there are only two manufacturers in the world that make them, except for the obvious chinese copies, but I mean the ones that most engine builders will use not the average joe that doesn't know better., ill look at the Herberts later, thanks for that..

I'm still steering towards the Morels as I think if I had a lifter failure its going to cost more than the difference in price anyway..

Has anybody used the short travel comps...simply as I have reads a few Hot Rod magazine etc etc articles on them??.....did you have any luck??

or do I just use the Pro Hydraulics morels
The 4603 Morel with a properly set up valvetrain will go 7000 rpm plus. We've done it on several occasions.
Chris Straub
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:46 pm

cstraub wrote:
GARY C wrote:If you want the Morel quality without paying for the name then you may want to talk to Doug Herbert http://www.herbertcams.com/hydraulic-roller/
Doesn't really matter who you buy it from they are getting a well made lifter. Now after the sale comes customer support and tech advice. That's worth it to some people.
I have never had an issue with service after the sell and was actually impressed that more than one time the owner of the company was the one who took my call. I used to deal with Chet's side of the business before his passing, on custom grinds they would connect you directly to the cam grinder who would give you his cell phone number so that you could have direct contact with him. Probably one of the few men you will meet that actually has a cam grinder in his home garage.

I just thought that because the OP referenced price several times and was looking at dealing with Summit that maybe he would like to know that Herberts lifters are Morel without the name and the extra cost. Is the name on the box really worth $126.00?
Last edited by GARY C on Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by wyrmrider » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:07 pm

who makes comps long
who makes comps short
any vendor changes
X2 on dealing with Herbert, but then I'm prejudiced

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:11 pm

wyrmrider wrote:X2 on dealing with Herbert, but then I'm prejudiced
For or Against?
Just curious what your experience was?
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:13 pm

Morel is a job shop...in fact they are a 100,000 sq/ft job shop. They are a Tier 2 supplier to the OEM Tier 1's. It's cool to have a one off part but I think its even cooler when you can make millions of parts the same. Morel had 1 part they did for tier 1 supplier that was 7 million units a year, and they did this for 11 years with no issues.

Morel does machining, centerless grinding, and heat treat in house. The latter being something most can't say they do.
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by wyrmrider » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:49 pm

I worked with Chet for many years Always a straightshooter
backed off after Lefty got killed testing tires at San Gabriel
but I've also had custom cams done by Ed Winfield, - Racer Brown and Isky for the 413 superstocker (early 60's) and others

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by ozmuscleowner » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:13 am

Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.

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