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Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ???

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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GARY C
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by GARY C » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:13 am

ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
4603 http://johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=4603
4603 http://www.herbertcams.com/7-000rpm-bb- ... r-lifters/
My understanding is that Hyd Rollers tend to be more stable with thicker oils I don't know why that would be an issue with something that is controlled by oil? There are several threads her dealing with oil for Hyd Roller lifters alone.
4795 http://johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=4795
4795 http://www.herbertcams.com/7500-rpm-bb- ... r-lifters/
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by Orr89rocz » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:54 am

I've had good success running morel 4602 sbc lifters with 10w-40 weights. 2.10" valve not as heavy as bbc but it turned 7200 rpm under 30 psi boost no problem with a .640" hyd roller. I dont think it needs any heavier oil

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by steve316 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:16 am

The comp lifters will work for you. If you think the Morel are the way to go; they are well made with very good quality control. It is your money and for piece of mind go with what is the best way for you. Steve

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:46 am

ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
Morel's high rpm lifters are designed to run nothing heavier than 5W40 weight oil. NONE of Morels lifters will function properly with 20W50 due to their mfg tolerances. Copied directly from Morel:

5045 5043 0.842 0.750 BBC.842D T/B HI RPM O/C DO NOT USE OIL HEAVIER THAN 5W40
Chris Straub
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http://www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by piston guy » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:44 am

ozmuscleowner wrote:I know there are only two manufacturers in the world that make them, except for the obvious chinese copies, but I mean the ones that most engine builders will use not the average joe that doesn't know better., ill look at the Herberts later, thanks for that..

I'm still steering towards the Morels as I think if I had a lifter failure its going to cost more than the difference in price anyway..

Has anybody used the short travel comps...simply as I have reads a few Hot Rod magazine etc etc articles on them??.....did you have any luck??

or do I just use the Pro Hydraulics morels

Is Shaver Specialties the other one?

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:29 am

Morel
Shaver
Johnson/Hylift
Johnson
Gaterman
Delphi
Eaton
and a guy in ID who's name escapes me.
Chris Straub
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by GARY C » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:17 pm

cstraub wrote:
ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
Morel's high rpm lifters are designed to run nothing heavier than 5W40 weight oil. NONE of Morels lifters will function properly with 20W50 due to their mfg tolerances. Copied directly from Morel:

5045 5043 0.842 0.750 BBC.842D T/B HI RPM O/C DO NOT USE OIL HEAVIER THAN 5W40
Is the 50 series their short travel lifter?
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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:29 pm

GARY C wrote:
cstraub wrote:
ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
Morel's high rpm lifters are designed to run nothing heavier than 5W40 weight oil. NONE of Morels lifters will function properly with 20W50 due to their mfg tolerances. Copied directly from Morel:

5045 5043 0.842 0.750 BBC.842D T/B HI RPM O/C DO NOT USE OIL HEAVIER THAN 5W40
Is the 50 series their short travel lifter?
No. If has HLT in the description then it is a short travel lifter. Hyd. Limited Travel.
Chris Straub
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http://www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by mdrew » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:34 pm

cstraub wrote:
ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
Morel's high rpm lifters are designed to run nothing heavier than 5W40 weight oil. NONE of Morels lifters will function properly with 20W50 due to their mfg tolerances. Copied directly from Morel:

5045 5043 0.842 0.750 BBC.842D T/B HI RPM O/C DO NOT USE OIL HEAVIER THAN 5W40
What would happen if 50 weight was used?

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by cstraub » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:44 pm

mdrew wrote:
cstraub wrote:
ozmuscleowner wrote:Ok... so I have looked up the Herbert lifters.
Interesting their 7500 rpm lifter says they can run huge spring pressure... and they have to use 20-50W oil minimum.
The big pressure valve spring seems to make me think that it may suffer similar problems to a solid roller. Where lifter failure when idling for too long on the street is a cause of failure.
Maybe their 7000 rpm ones will work. I'll call them I think.
Morel's high rpm lifters are designed to run nothing heavier than 5W40 weight oil. NONE of Morels lifters will function properly with 20W50 due to their mfg tolerances. Copied directly from Morel:

5045 5043 0.842 0.750 BBC.842D T/B HI RPM O/C DO NOT USE OIL HEAVIER THAN 5W40
What would happen if 50 weight was used?
Morel's lifters will rpm. They found how to do this was with the tolerance between the body and valving. If you listen to the internet a hyd roller lifter won't make power above 6000 rpm. Well I have countless customers with BBC heavy valve train that make power to 7000 rpm and back it up at the track. A certain hyd roller 502 with a set of 4603's put a 3550# Chevelle in the 9.40's at 141MPH. Shifting at 6700 rpm.

To do the above the lifter has to have oil that flows and flows at ambient temp. 50W oil doesn't flow well and it will starve the lifter creating an air pocket in the chamber. At some point the lifter will collapse and you could loose a pushrod or damage a rocker. 20W50 is for rear ends now. Guys that want to argue oil winter rating I tell them to go to Reher's website and look up the 900HP Super Series stuff and look at the bottom of the spec sheet....10W30.

We recommend Driven 10W40 Conventional or Synthetic as our first choice. Driven has an additive package that combats corrosion in engine during long periods of storage. Our second choice is Mobil1 High Mileage. It skirts the EPA due to the fact it is for older vehicles. Run a 10W30 or 10W40. Pick a grade based on your climate.
Chris Straub
Performance Mfg.
http://www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by wyrmrider » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:52 pm

But if you honda says 5W-20 (or similar) do it
with today's tighter clearance on the pistons and knowing most wear is at start up I'm moving to lighter 5W-30
or 0W-x in cold weather climates 5W40 for desert
It depends
but that heavy oil is as stated above
In the boats cold start- Idle 300 feet Hit full throttle with a skier- happens all the time so oil for it
same for pulling out of the carport and a block to the freeway
you can idle forever and oil temp will not come up much

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by mdrew » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:54 pm

Thanks for the response. I was just wondering if the problem was lifter pump up, or bleed down, or combination of both. I have a preference for the high speeds. I generally use M1, 5-30 or the M1 0-40 euro blend in LS builds (which are becoming my norm it seems).

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by piston guy » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:42 pm

cstraub wrote:Morel
Shaver
Johnson/Hylift
Johnson
Gaterman
Delphi
Eaton
and a guy in ID who's name escapes me.

Thanks Chris , that was my point , more than just two manufacturers.

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:15 pm

wyrmrider wrote: who makes comps short
Comp short travel are made by Shaver manufacturing (USA) I've used a few sets in BBC' s after learning about them from Randy M. They have been working very well with 10w30 oil and the big PAC beehive spring. They are not "undersized on O.D" like some lifters.

I've installed the morel street style .700" roller wheel in street/hotrod/resto stuff. They've worked out well too.

The best morels are as good as it gets IMO.
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Can't seem to quit #-o

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Re: Hydraulic roller lifter technical question COMP..MOREL ?

Post by Schurkey » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:22 pm

cstraub wrote:Morel's lifters will rpm. They found how to do this was with the tolerance between the body and valving.
"Tolerance" or "clearance"?

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