2 heads better than 1 - power porting E7TE iron.

[Joe-71]

I don't go any larger than 1.900" on those intake valves in any of the late model HO heads. I am surprised you didn't hit water with the cutter. Older 289/302/351W can get by with 1.940 if you don't go more than ~.300" below the seat with cutter and hand blend. Ported literally hundreds of those heads back in the day to flow 224-234 cfm with the 1.900" intake valve. Joe-71

[brentry]

I can see that Joe.

I honestly don't care I ruined them
Was going to do a set of p's.
Luckily got nice valves and nice springs with these e5ta. (Not even knowing) .

[piston guy]

I am amazed at 42 pages of discussion. The small block Ford has been hindered by the lack of a good cylinder head since DAY 1. IMHO "only" , Ford engineers were not given the task of building a "race" engine around it initially. Ford was also well known for building special parts "for itself" that were never intended for the general public. They found this out instantly when they tried to go to Indy in '62 with the pushrod engine. Despite extremely large port aluminum heads ( again never available to the public) they made HP in the 300s. IF that head would have been sold to "hot rodders" , it would have changed history. It ran for two years ( at Indy) before being replaced by the DOHC. The "public" was stuck with ported 289 heads from the "legends" Mondello , Valley Head Service , and others. The best flowed 220 "ish" and THAT held back power. Armed with those , Ford went with them for the GT-40 to LeMans. They soon found they needed more HP for the Mulsane straight and some experimental heads were built , refined and produced as C6FE 6090-A casting number heads. These "could" floe over 250. I owned one set that were a tic over 260. Guess what , the heads were not "generally available " except through Shelby American and were very limited quantity. Why? Ford didn't want the public to be competitive with it's "company cars". NOTHING better was made in cast iron from Ford until the N351 head Those who rave about the E7 , F1 F3, P , 69-70 351W have never used the C6FE because of it's obvious rarity. The "start" of the SBF "revolution" (IMHO) began when the TFS head was introduced. NOW there are thirty PLUS SBF heads out there. Pick ANY porter willing to take on the task and they WILL NOT get 300 cfm intake flow as several "out of the box" aftermarket SBF heads can do NOR will they make the same power.The cast iron PRODUCTION Ford head castings simply will not allow it. Notice I didn't mention the Tunnel Port 302 head because it wasn't available to the public either. The Boss 302 would flow the numbers but it is not an "inline" valve head so I left it out too.
OK now you can start throwing stones at me , or burn me at the stake if you prefer.

[swampbuggy]

Well Piston Guy......what stuck to my brain after reading the above short book LOL, was how you mentioned that CFM air flow increases would make MORE power. This has been thrown around in the past several months (how important flow increases are). The importance/quantity is dependent upon the demand of the engine, and that CFM demand is set by mainly (2) factors....Cubic Inches and RPM's . Mark H.

[brentry]

I moved on to a set of gt40ps's with the same 1.94 valves out of heads above. Much better head and less work. Still.plenty fast airspeed if that's what you want. I did buy a new sonic tester . Dont want ruin these.

[Carnut1]

I moved on to a set of gt40ps's with the same 1.94 valves out of heads above. Much better head and less work. Still.plenty fast airspeed if that's what you want. I did buy a new sonic tester . Dont want ruin these.

The plug boss is very close on gt40p. If you cut it too much there will not be enought metal to support the plug and crack. I use a 1.85" on gt40p. Fyi. Thanks, Charlie

[brentry]

Yes.I see that. Been very careful there.
I didnt go all to wide on the top cut and only took very little off the boss. There flowing well.
I do have one port set up with a 1.84 valve and comparing to the 1.94

[Mummert]

I am amazed at 42 pages of discussion. The small block Ford has been hindered by the lack of a good cylinder head since DAY 1. IMHO "only" , Ford engineers were not given the task of building a "race" engine around it initially. Ford was also well known for building special parts "for itself" that were never intended for the general public. They found this out instantly when they tried to go to Indy in '62 with the pushrod engine. Despite extremely large port aluminum heads ( again never available to the public) they made HP in the 300s. IF that head would have been sold to "hot rodders" , it would have changed history. It ran for two years ( at Indy) before being replaced by the DOHC. The "public" was stuck with ported 289 heads from the "legends" Mondello , Valley Head Service , and others. The best flowed 220 "ish" and THAT held back power. Armed with those , Ford went with them for the GT-40 to LeMans. They soon found they needed more HP for the Mulsane straight and some experimental heads were built , refined and produced as C6FE 6090-A casting number heads. These "could" floe over 250. I owned one set that were a tic over 260. Guess what , the heads were not "generally available " except through Shelby American and were very limited quantity. Why? Ford didn't want the public to be competitive with it's "company cars". NOTHING better was made in cast iron from Ford until the N351 head Those who rave about the E7 , F1 F3, P , 69-70 351W have never used the C6FE because of it's obvious rarity. The "start" of the SBF "revolution" (IMHO) began when the TFS head was introduced. NOW there are thirty PLUS SBF heads out there. Pick ANY porter willing to take on the task and they WILL NOT get 300 cfm intake flow as several "out of the box" aftermarket SBF heads can do NOR will they make the same power.The cast iron PRODUCTION Ford head castings simply will not allow it. Notice I didn't mention the Tunnel Port 302 head because it wasn't available to the public either. The Boss 302 would flow the numbers but it is not an "inline" valve head so I left it out too.
OK now you can start throwing stones at me , or burn me at the stake if you prefer.

C5AE passenger car heads can make enough power ( in race trim) to break the blocks. The race heads weren't neccesary to make 500+hp just easier.

[frnkeore]

C5AE passenger car heads can make enough power ( in race trim) to break the blocks. The race heads weren't neccesary to make 500+hp just easier.

That is true but, there were ways to keep them together at 550 or more HP.

Dan Gurney, wasn't supported by Ford, in any direct way, that I ever saw but, he placed 2nd at the '69 Indy 500 and won 4 other road races that year. The other races he won were 250/300 mi, plus the other racing that year.

The engine was a 318 CI stock block, with Gurney/Westlake heads. I'm not sure if he used the 239/254 Y block crank in the Indy engine but, that is what he was running at that time (4.04 x 3.1 = 317.9) for a crankshaft. It could also have been offset ground to 4.0 x 3.165 = 318.18 but it would have been somewhere in that range of bore/stroke.

I have seen pictures of the girdle that he used. It was just a steel main cap support attached to the pan rails, with no direct attachment to the caps, themselves.

[piston guy]

frnkeore,
Gurney used XE forgings with the long snout like the DOHC. They were stroked and hard chromed by Crankshaft Co here in Los Angeles. I had one that was 3.250 stroke which I got from Gurney at AAR.

Mummert,
I know the late Kip Martin (rip) made over 500 hp from his NHRA Super Stock 289 with a flat top piston and I am certain it was all because of the heads he ran. I never saw the heads but I did do the pistons for him.

[frnkeore]

Gurney's first 318 engines did use the Y block cranks but, I'm not surprised that he went to Crankshaft Co. later and that's I said that I wasn't sure if used the Y block crank in the Indy engine.

At the time, Gurney was one of my favorite builder/drivers. I lived in the next town (Orange) from his shop in SA and followed his racing, closely. I also attend the Rex Mays 300 at Riverside, that year, where he finished 3rd and Andretti won.

I loved those days and that's what got me into Formula Atlantic, 4 years later.

[Carnut1]

David Vizard's PowerTec 10 EP 31 SBF factory iron heads - 100 hp mods! - YouTube

Been out of the game for a while but I am sure a few would like to see this. This is actually the third video D.V. posted of the dyno work we did in this thread. Thanks, Charlie

[289nate]

Mark mentioned Valley Head Service a while back. Had a set of 289 heads done therein the mid to late ‘90’s. Went in for a basic street port job. Well the old guy got confused and did the full port job with larger Chevy valves. Only paid for what I asked for but it was still over $1,700 out the door. Later saw an add for the TFS TW and about fell over how cheap they were.

https://youtu.be/x1M50qOSLtg

I’ll put a little dead simple low buck street/strip under 10:1 compression stock as cast aftermarket heads and intake 289 I assembled a few years back up against that with each properly geared for the rpm range.

[Carnut1]

Mark mentioned Valley Head Service a while back. Had a set of 289 heads done therein the mid to late ‘90’s. Went in for a basic street port job. Well the old guy got confused and did the full port job with larger Chevy valves. Only paid for what I asked for but it was still over $1,700 out the door. Later saw an add for the TFS TW and about fell over how cheap they were.

https://youtu.be/x1M50qOSLtg

I’ll put a little dead simple low buck street/strip under 10:1 compression stock as cast aftermarket heads and intake 289 I assembled a few years back up against that with each properly geared for the rpm range.

Check the size of the cam. Small flat tappet.

[289nate]

The point of the comparison in the video was what the difference was in how Vizzard approaches a cylinder head compared to industry standard. He “proved” that in his test.

My point is that one shouldn’t get excited about these cast iron cylinder heads when MUCH cheaper aftermarket castings can accomplish the same thing and more. Unless you can do the work yourself it’s money poorly spent Been there done that as I explained.

My opinion is that they are cool but not practical for 99% building a performance engine. Also pointing out the difference between power and as it relates to engines for a street strip fun toy which almost always has an aftermarket overdrive transmission these days. Take the test for what it is meant to be.

Did I see the more scienced out max effort version of a stock ported head 306 lower rpm build on pump gas? Of course I did. It would be great in my cruiser ‘64 Falcon convertible. Have I seen what stock head classes have done with “stock” 289/302 in-line valve heads with a few thousand into them? Of course I have. Now put the same attention into aftermarket heads with an overdrive friendly rpm range and gearing. It will be night and day.