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-0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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-0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:22 pm

Cloyes p.n. 9-134-15 is NLA. Who if anyone makes one? (same chain fits BB Ford and Chrysler)
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by Malvn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:44 pm

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:15 am

Thanks malvin. Interesting; Rollmaster uses bigger sprockets instead of 'shorter' chains like Cloyes. The site doesn't mention how big they go; I'll drop them a line to ask.
They have a handy 'rule of slack' to determine how much short the c-c is; I'll compare it to my actual measurement tomorrow. One factor I'm pondering but which I've never seen mentioned is the fact that mine is an aluminum block and so at 200° F., the c-c will grow ~0.004" more than an iron one...
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by Schurkey » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:56 am

I thought Cloyes used bigger sprocket(s). Aren't "shorter chains" a myth?

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by Geoff2 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:05 am

What Shurkey said.

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by EDC » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:30 am

Schurkey wrote:I thought Cloyes used bigger sprocket(s). Aren't "shorter chains" a myth?
Correct
"Quality" is like buying oats. You can pay a fair price for it and get some good quality oats,
or you can get it a hell of a lot cheaper, when it's already been through the horse.

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:32 am

Incorrect. The Cloyes tech line is (479) 646 -1662, ex. 228. Call them yourselves to verify if you like but their catalog lists 9-134 as the standard length BB chain; to be followed by a -5 or -10 for 0.005" or 0.010" closer c-c respectively. When I talked to their tech yesterday he said: "Sorry, we don't make the fifteen thous. short chain anymore."
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by EDC » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:03 am

MadBill wrote:Incorrect. The Cloyes tech line is (479) 646 -1662, ex. 228. Call them yourselves to verify if you like but their catalog lists 9-134 as the standard length BB chain; to be followed by a -5 or -10 for 0.005" or 0.010" closer c-c respectively. When I talked to their tech yesterday he said: "Sorry, we don't make the fifteen thous. short chain anymore."
My IWIS Rollmaster sets show one replacement chain. Maybe Closes uses various versions but I don't use them...
"Quality" is like buying oats. You can pay a fair price for it and get some good quality oats,
or you can get it a hell of a lot cheaper, when it's already been through the horse.

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by pamotorman » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:09 pm

can you adapt a LS timing chain tensioner. also some 4 cylinder engine use chain tensioners
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:38 pm

EDC wrote:
MadBill wrote:Incorrect. The Cloyes tech line is (479) 646 -1662, ex. 228. Call them yourselves to verify if you like but their catalog lists 9-134 as the standard length BB chain; to be followed by a -5 or -10 for 0.005" or 0.010" closer c-c respectively. When I talked to their tech yesterday he said: "Sorry, we don't make the fifteen thous. short chain anymore."
My IWIS Rollmaster sets show one replacement chain. Maybe Closes uses various versions but I don't use them...
Yes, Rollmaster makes 'fat' sprockets instead of short chains and claim it's a better approach.
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:43 pm

pamotorman wrote:can you adapt a LS timing chain tensioner. also some 4 cylinder engine use chain tensioners
Great minds... and all that, pamotorman! Years ago when I first started rebuilding the engine I failed to find a 'short' chain, so I adapted a Cavalier tensioner to take up the slack, but now I've got a Cloyes two piece cover for fast cam re-indexing, and it won't clear the tensioner. Ironically, unbeknownst to me, Cloyes was still offering a 0.015" short chain back then.. #-o
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by cpmotors » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:35 pm

MadBill wrote:Incorrect. The Cloyes tech line is (479) 646 -1662, ex. 228. Call them yourselves to verify if you like but their catalog lists 9-134 as the standard length BB chain; to be followed by a -5 or -10 for 0.005" or 0.010" closer c-c respectively. When I talked to their tech yesterday he said: "Sorry, we don't make the fifteen thous. short chain anymore."
Not a fan of Cloyes, but may I submit some more food for thought here Bill.
I just counted 33 links in the chains I use. To change the Overall length of that chain by -.015"=.00045" per link. That's 4.5 TEN THOUSANDS of an inch change in center to center distance per link. But we are talking Centerline Distance of the CAM/Crankshaft. Sprockets are measured at the root of the tooth vs pitch diameter like gears. I submit that Cloyes is using the usual tactics about chains when in fact they change the root diameter of the gears themselves vs attempting to making chains that alter the link center distance in Ten Thousands of an inch to loose .015" in Center to Center distance across 5.152".
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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by pamotorman » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:16 pm

MadBill wrote:
EDC wrote:
MadBill wrote:Incorrect. The Cloyes tech line is (479) 646 -1662, ex. 228. Call them yourselves to verify if you like but their catalog lists 9-134 as the standard length BB chain; to be followed by a -5 or -10 for 0.005" or 0.010" closer c-c respectively. When I talked to their tech yesterday he said: "Sorry, we don't make the fifteen thous. short chain anymore."
My IWIS Rollmaster sets show one replacement chain. Maybe Closes uses various versions but I don't use them...
Yes, Rollmaster makes 'fat' sprockets instead of short chains and claim it's a better approach.
it is also a lot cheaper to change the pitch diameter of a sprocket than engineer a new chain .

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by ZEOHSIX » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:21 pm

I'm wondering if this is for your aluminum big block build....if it is you should take into consideration the additional growth of an aluminum block vs cast iron as the block is heated.......just saying.....

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Re: -0.015" Big Block Timing Chain

Post by MadBill » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:32 pm

ZEOHSIX wrote:I'm wondering if this is for your aluminum big block build....if it is you should take into consideration the additional growth of an aluminum block vs cast iron as the block is heated.......just saying.....
Yes it is, as pondered in my post at the top of the page. I've never seen a print for my factory aluminum block, or any aftermarket ones, but I don't believe the former is changed from the iron version. An aluminum replacement for any iron block would have the same issue. I suspect it is just ignored, like P/V and squish difference for same.
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