Gapless Top ring users

[CGT]

I just fitted a set of Total Seal rings with gapless top. It seems the gapless top has more radial tension than what I'm used to seeing with a conventional type 1.5mm ring. Has anyone seen this same thing?

[GM-DR]

Have you compared the radial thickness dim. of the two rings you are comparing ?

[statsystems]

I just fitted a set of Total Seal rings with gapless top. It seems the gapless top has more radial tension than what I'm used to seeing with a conventional type 1.5mm ring. Has anyone seen this same thing?

More tension with just the ring, or the ring and the spacer?

[CGT]

I just fitted a set of Total Seal rings with gapless top. It seems the gapless top has more radial tension than what I'm used to seeing with a conventional type 1.5mm ring. Has anyone seen this same thing?

With both pieces of the top ring on the piston seems to have more tension then one piece conventional ring.


More tension with just the ring, or the ring and the spacer?

[statsystems]

I just fitted a set of Total Seal rings with gapless top. It seems the gapless top has more radial tension than what I'm used to seeing with a conventional type 1.5mm ring. Has anyone seen this same thing?

With both pieces of the top ring on the piston seems to have more tension then one piece conventional ring.


More tension with just the ring, or the ring and the spacer?

I have been using them for years. In all that time I never checked the tension with the spacer in. Next time I will. But...............I think the spacer does add to radial tension. It has to have some radial tension of its own to help keep it from spinning in the top ring.

[CGT]

Stat. Have you had good luck with them?

[statsystems]

Stat. Have you had good luck with them?

Yes.

If I'm not using gas ports I run gapless tops. Spent an assload of money testing them. Never had a set not work.

[MadBill]

Not with gas ports though? I discussed this with Keith Jones at TS a couple of years back and he said ports were good with Gapless tops.

[statsystems]

Not with gas ports though? I discussed this with Keith Jones at TS a couple of years back and he said ports were good with Gapless tops.

I have never tried it so I don't want to run my mouth. I've used gas ports with 1/16 rings and didn't care for it so only .043 or thinner rings get gas ports.

I guess you could gas port an .043 gapless top ring. I just never had any success gas porting thick rings.

[Diodedog]

Not with gas ports though? I discussed this with Keith Jones at TS a couple of years back and he said ports were good with Gapless tops.

I have never tried it so I don't want to run my mouth. I've used gas ports with 1/16 rings and didn't care for it so only .043 or thinner rings get gas ports.

I guess you could gas port an .043 gapless top ring. I just never had any success gas porting thick rings.

Could you give an estimate of the power difference between the 1/16 without gas ports and the .043 with gas ports. I'm putting together an engine as a test mule for my 383 Challenger Super Stocker which will use a legal spec Diamond flat top with the 1/16 rings. It will help me get the (new to me) car out sooner to work out the bugs and can make many pulls at a later date on the dyno without going away as quick as an .043 GP. and will also be a good mule for testing Stocker combos on the dyno.

[stokerboats]

Gapless top rings are a pita to file fit. I used them once for a 565 Chevy.

[nhrastocker]

Not with gas ports though? I discussed this with Keith Jones at TS a couple of years back and he said ports were good with Gapless tops.

I have never tried it so I don't want to run my mouth. I've used gas ports with 1/16 rings and didn't care for it so only .043 or thinner rings get gas ports.

I guess you could gas port an .043 gapless top ring. I just never had any success gas porting thick rings.

Could you give an estimate of the power difference between the 1/16 without gas ports and the .043 with gas ports. I'm putting together an engine as a test mule for my 383 Challenger Super Stocker which will use a legal spec Diamond flat top with the 1/16 rings. It will help me get the (new to me) car out sooner to work out the bugs and can make many pulls at a later date on the dyno without going away as quick as an .043 GP. and will also be a good mule for testing Stocker combos on the dyno.

If you want the best piston ring recommendation for your Mopar 383, call Steve Wann at Panella Racing Engines.
Steve builds some of the fastest Mopar RB and B engines in the country.

[CGT]

Gapless top rings are a pita to file fit. I used them once for a 565 Chevy.

Yeah. I found it to be a pita myself.

[jdperform]

I use the gapless .9 top w/.125 radials on some of my customs with horizontal ports. Works pretty good and the crankcase blow by meter likes it also. Winged 410 sprinters 705 lbs of torque and over 900 lbs/Hr methanol. The attraction for me is the conformabilty of the thinner ring. A pricey elec ring grinder helps with the thinner rings.

[groberts101]

I loves me some gapless rings too but I will never again run really thin gapless top ring pack on any dedicated street engine. 1.5mm/1/16" is my self imposed limit. Too thin top rings with higher ring positions located next to thinnish piston crowns will reduce safety margin(less durability during sudden heat spikes/maybe cooling issues or tune going away?) and can eventually lead to overheating.. ring twist, permanent distortion and accelerate ringland wear.

Total seal knows this and even redesigned some of their sets several years ago with machining reduction of top ring material removal and then substituting thinner gapless spacers to compensate for the now thicker rear cross section. TS also mentioned that more mass was left in the channeled out top ring to help improve overall durability as if you had stepped up ring thickness by at least some small percentage. Reduces cupping and keeps the ring profile more square within the ringland when the pressure and heat is really on.

And yep.. they "feel" quite a bit stiffer, especially on compression during install, but keep in mind that much of that added resistance is actually friction between the two rings nesting against each other. The two rings are slightly different sizes until they are compressed and equalized nearer to the actual bore size. Once they are normalized to typical running size and fit/wear/lap together with a bit of residual oil added.. the tension is not nearly the same as a fresh set feels during install. You can feel that friction reduction when installing pistons/compressing a fresh set and comparing to another set that has been seasoned and reinstalled. Night and day difference in compression effort with an old band style ring compressor.

EDIT.. sorry scratch the "thin gapless rings on the street" comments.. just saw your other "HP prediction" thread. Badass high effort motor.. carry on.