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Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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peejay
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by peejay » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am

midnightbluS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:35 am
Racing68 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:54 pm
I think what everyone here is looking at is another Silverback carb.
And what about all of those other parts? Silverback carbs, too? The pistons are called a carbon composite. Possibly 3d printed using an additive process? Advancement in 3d printed parts seems to be coming along quite nicely. I came across a company doing carbon something 3d printing a while back.
Carbon composites like brake rotors start out as carbon fiber, but they get baked at ultrahigh temperatures to alter the materials property further. You end up with a kind of solid brick of carbon that still has a "grain structure" in it. (Very loose description of the process - I'd only read about it a couple times)

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by mk e » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:10 am

midnightbluS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:35 am

Advancement in 3d printed parts seems to be coming along quite nicely. I came across a company doing carbon something 3d printing a while back.
There is a printer company called carbon 3d, but they don't actually print with carbon material....its a light cure technology but it's much faster because they claim its continuous vs layered. The truth is the build platform does move continuously but the the cure is a series of projected images like standard DLP (digital light processing). A HUGE problem with most printers is the the material properties in the x-y plane (on the build platform) are much better than in the z(build motion direction) but the carbon machine gets you almost as good in the z....about 80-90% as good.

Warping is also a problem with all printers, shrinkage happens during polymerization and can be accounted for but the internal stress are much harder to handle and cause dimensional issues.

The other problem with these liquid bath or inkjet type printers is they are very limited on particle size within the liquid....so CF fibers in the part are out of the question, at least with current technology.

Short version is don't hold your breathe waiting for printed CF connecting rods :)
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by PackardV8 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:56 am

Almost twenty years ago, carbon fiber pushrods were the hot new high dollar trick. Seen any lately?
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by lefty o » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:01 am

PackardV8 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:56 am
Almost twenty years ago, carbon fiber pushrods were the hot new high dollar trick. Seen any lately?
in the late 50's they came out with this fancy fuel injection thing, then it vanished for about 25yrs. seems its everywhere today. things change and evolve, just because something didnt work 20yrs ago, doesnt mean it wont work today.

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by Nefario » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:14 am

lefty o wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:01 am
[......just because something didnt work 20yrs ago, doesnt mean it wont work today.
TOTALLY - But their sample connecting rod has actual square corners - generally horrible for highly stressed designs of any material. And their crowdfunder page reads like the founder plans to hire people to design real parts as they get requests. :roll:

I've thought about how to maximize the properties of carbon fiber. Maybe use molten aluminum as "resin"? Maybe knit the fiber into the shape of the rod - it's technically possible. Maybe use fiber almost 100% directional? I don't see a real part here.
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by 427dart » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:46 pm

I remember back in the 80's or 90's there was a write up on polymer or plastic connecting rods in one of the car mags.
Didn't seem to catch on as the years went by.

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by wwmtlineman » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:52 pm

Maybe for a top fuel Harley ?

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:10 pm

I have worked on 2 composite engine projects, the weak link in the chain is in threaded fastening; unless something new has com along, threaded inserts are essential. Building those into a connecting rod requires hand layup of the fibers and is extraordinarily difficult work and not an ideal shape with the fibers all on one side of the insert.

A one-piece, 2-stroke rod might be a better place to start.
Considering that the cranks already are not made light as they could be, it seems unlikely to provide a meaningful advantage.
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by j-c-c » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:02 pm

peejay wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:10 am
midnightbluS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:35 am
Racing68 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:54 pm
I think what everyone here is looking at is another Silverback carb.
And what about all of those other parts? Silverback carbs, too? The pistons are called a carbon composite. Possibly 3d printed using an additive process? Advancement in 3d printed parts seems to be coming along quite nicely. I came across a company doing carbon something 3d printing a while back.
Carbon composites like brake rotors start out as carbon fiber, but they get baked at ultrahigh temperatures to alter the materials property further. You end up with a kind of solid brick of carbon that still has a "grain structure" in it. (Very loose description of the process - I'd only read about it a couple times)
But on rotors, the temp operating window is a main reason for the high temp cure, to effectively boil off/crystallize the binder, and brittleness is not a major concern, little of that process seems to me, crosses over to rods.

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by pamotorman » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:17 pm

a friend clark Irwin who worked for GM racing spent time at smokeys told me their carbon fiber push rods turned to dust on the first dyno pull

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by Ks Fats » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:31 pm

"remember back in the 80's or 90's there was a write up on polymer or plastic connecting rods in one of the car mags.
Didn't seem to catch on as the years went by." Circle Track did an article on a polymer 4 cylinder project that was targeted for the midgets as I recall. Iron Liners and thread inserts, poly connecting rods etc; I believe circle Track dubbed it a "PolyMotor". Must have died on the vine as I never heard any more about it, maybe pamotorman can shed light as I think it was being developed in Nascarville.

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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by MadBill » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:52 pm

The Polimotor first surfaced in the late seventies, faded in the late eighties and was resurrected about three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by stealth » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:26 pm

I’m wondering why the are trying to market these parts to anyone....if superior they would be proprietary to F1 or high tech motorcycle OEMs.
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by Newold1 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:01 pm

I think this guy might be on what I call "A Capital" fishing trip. SEMA is not really the most technological presentations of new high tech materials and offerings. Want to find cool vehicle builds, amazing one -off paint jobs and thousands of shiney wheels and such -Visit Sema

If this product was available and usable today you would see them making the parts and putting them into actual performance and racing applications with some industry usage and probably some representation and display at somewhere like PRI or similar.
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Re: Carbon Fiber connecting rods from AWA Composites/SEMA?

Post by Bazman » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:03 pm

Spoke to an acquaintance who owned his own CF factory (made parts for export mostly) and he agreed with the posts above re it is impossible right now to print true CF in 3D and obtain the kind of strength CF is known for. He is not aware of anyone in the industry around the world that has solved that problem yet.

For boats and body work nothing can touch it, for rods in an engine, I'd want to see results of testing over a few 000,000 cycles before I'd blow $18k. Their advertising seems light on test results re strength and durability.

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