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429 sbc ls build

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:39 am

Bump to an old tread. I finished this and competed at REC. Here are some progress pics. I will post the spreadsheets for dyno sessions in a little bit.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:50 am

Do you even die grinder bro?
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 am

Here are the dyno spreadsheets from the local stuska dyno and the superflow dyno at REC. If you have questions regarding the spreadsheet PM me directly. The names of the runs are based on what was changed beforehand. If it just a numerical value then that was a backup run.
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"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:48 pm

slo-svt wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 am
Here are the dyno spreadsheets from the local stuska dyno and the superflow dyno at REC. If you have questions regarding the spreadsheet PM me directly. The names of the runs are based on what was changed beforehand. If it just a numerical value then that was a backup run.
Ok, so Im going to assume that your not under a non disclosure or need to seek permission from anyone to comment...But, got any idea when you will be going back on the dyno with this? I would like to test on the Stuska with and without the mechanical water pump. I noticed coolant temps were pretty similar on both the dyno's on the pulls listed.

As far as changes, along with maybe spending more time tidying up the induction tract. To help meet your self-imposed goal of 800hp... What about a change of valve events?
Currently:

IVO is 21.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 78.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 22.0 ° ATDC

Got room for this?: LGW intake/NC exhaust possibly?

IVO is 29.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 73.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 25.0 ° ATDC
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

slo-svt
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:36 pm

CGT wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:48 pm
slo-svt wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 am
Here are the dyno spreadsheets from the local stuska dyno and the superflow dyno at REC. If you have questions regarding the spreadsheet PM me directly. The names of the runs are based on what was changed beforehand. If it just a numerical value then that was a backup run.
Ok, so Im going to assume that your not under a non disclosure or need to seek permission from anyone to comment...But, got any idea when you will be going back on the dyno with this? I would like to test on the Stuska with and without the mechanical water pump. I noticed coolant temps were pretty similar on both the dyno's on the pulls listed.

As far as changes, along with maybe spending more time tidying up the induction tract. To help meet your self-imposed goal of 800hp... What about a change of valve events?
Currently:

IVO is 21.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 78.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 22.0 ° ATDC

Got room for this?: LGW intake/NC exhaust possibly?

IVO is 29.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 73.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 25.0 ° ATDC
I would like to have it back on there before thanksgiving. The agree with the water pump test. I am going to kick myself if that's where the 20hp went from one dyno to the other. I should have plenty of clearance for those lobes.
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by MadBill » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:14 am

slo-svt wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:36 pm
...
I would like to have it back on there before thanksgiving. The agree with the water pump test. I am going to kick myself if that's where the 20hp went from one dyno to the other. I should have plenty of clearance for those lobes.
I think your butt is safe. Per p. 15 in the Stewart Components catalog https://www.carid.com/images/stewart-co ... atalog.pdf :

"At 5000 RPM, the
competitor’s pump draws
5 HP from the engine,
whereas the Stewart pump
only draws 2.7 HP.
Proven industry leaders!"
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by GARY C » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:50 am

MadBill wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:14 am
slo-svt wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:36 pm
...
I would like to have it back on there before thanksgiving. The agree with the water pump test. I am going to kick myself if that's where the 20hp went from one dyno to the other. I should have plenty of clearance for those lobes.
I think your butt is safe. Per p. 15 in the Stewart Components catalog https://www.carid.com/images/stewart-co ... atalog.pdf :

"At 5000 RPM, the
competitor’s pump draws
5 HP from the engine,
whereas the Stewart pump
only draws 2.7 HP.
Proven industry leaders!"
EMC tv did a test and lost 3.7 with underdriven pulleys 5.7 with a standard driven and a restictor and a total of 11.8 with that and an alternator under load. Then they raised water temp from 130 to 200 and lost another 7 ft lbs and 10 horsies.

I would think a power difference from dyno to dyno would be normal.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 am

Screenshot_20190927-062511.png
I wouldnt be surprised if that contraption is 10hp from an electric pump....cant see 20. It would just be interesting to know. After that...who cares. I doubt you want an electric pump on your car anyway?
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by CGT » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:42 am

GARY C wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:50 am
I would think a power difference from dyno to dyno would be normal.
For sure, It was tested with an electric pump in Missouri, and with the mechanical pump, idler and tensionser in North Carolina. I just think it would be interesting to eliminate that variable to see if the two dyno's were closer.

And I think they were pretty close considering all the variables that could make them different from one another. Since it's the dyno I regularly use, it interests me to see how it compares to another type of dyno in another part of the country. It can make conversations with other builders using other dyno's more relevant and useful.


Other people there were off considerably more(and less). If there is one conversation you always hear from people at a dyno challenge is differences from home to the competition....better or worse.

That's whats cool about dyno comps for engine builders, everyone is running on the same device. It eliminates a lot of phuckery. Car quality, torque converters, drivers, DA, tracks and a lot more can make engine builders look like heroes or zeroes.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:56 pm

CGT wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:42 am
GARY C wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:50 am
I would think a power difference from dyno to dyno would be normal.
For sure, It was tested with an electric pump in Missouri, and with the mechanical pump, idler and tensionser in North Carolina. I just think it would be interesting to eliminate that variable to see if the two dyno's were closer.

And I think they were pretty close considering all the variables that could make them different from one another. Since it's the dyno I regularly use, it interests me to see how it compares to another type of dyno in another part of the country. It can make conversations with other builders using other dyno's more relevant and useful.


Other people there were off considerably more(and less). If there is one conversation you always hear from people at a dyno challenge is differences from home to the competition....better or worse.

That's whats cool about dyno comps for engine builders, everyone is running on the same device. It eliminates a lot of phuckery. Car quality, torque converters, drivers, DA, tracks and a lot more can make engine builders look like heroes or zeroes.
I did a dyno test with a small block Mopar and the O.E.M. water pump, crank driven 1 to 1.... then installed a Moroso electric motor to turn that water pump. On that 400 horsepower engine there was 12 horsepower difference at 6,000 RPM and only 3 horsepower at 4,000.

Most dyno's do not correlate with one another but, differences between like tests are usually pretty close.
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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:31 am

CGT wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:48 pm
slo-svt wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 am
Here are the dyno spreadsheets from the local stuska dyno and the superflow dyno at REC. If you have questions regarding the spreadsheet PM me directly. The names of the runs are based on what was changed beforehand. If it just a numerical value then that was a backup run.
Ok, so Im going to assume that your not under a non disclosure or need to seek permission from anyone to comment...But, got any idea when you will be going back on the dyno with this? I would like to test on the Stuska with and without the mechanical water pump. I noticed coolant temps were pretty similar on both the dyno's on the pulls listed.

As far as changes, along with maybe spending more time tidying up the induction tract. To help meet your self-imposed goal of 800hp... What about a change of valve events?
Currently:

IVO is 21.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 78.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 22.0 ° ATDC

Got room for this?: LGW intake/NC exhaust possibly?

IVO is 29.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 73.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 25.0 ° ATDC
I found the invoice from comp. My current camshaft is 262/282 114lsa installed at 110

IVO is 21.0 ° BTDC
IVC is 61.0 ° ABDC
EVO is 79.0 ° BBDC
EVC is 23.0 ° ATDC

For what it's worth. I wasn't trying to say I thought the water pump was worth 20hp. I was simply saying I was going to kick myself if it was.
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by randy331 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:16 am

slo-svt wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:31 am
For what it's worth. I wasn't trying to say I thought the water pump was worth 20hp. I was simply saying I was going to kick myself if it was.
It may not cost you 20 hp to drive the pump at the same engine temp as an electric one, but with an electric one you can keep running water through the engine with it off and make pulls at a lower temp, which will add power and score at a dyno competition. The combination of driving the pump off the crank at 7000 rpm and not having it as cool as possible could be 20 HP.

Randy

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by steve316 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:05 am

when you put this back on the dyno; other than water pump what other changes are you going to try?

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by slo-svt » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:06 pm

steve316 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:05 am
when you put this back on the dyno; other than water pump what other changes are you going to try?
I have quite a few things to check and fix. I wasn't happy with the epoxy in the entrance of the port or a step above the top cut of the intake valve. So I will initially be pouring another mold and re measuring everything to see where it ended up (I cut it too close getting ready for REC and skipped this step because I was scared to messing up the epoxy getting the mold out) I plan to address those things and I am doing away with the wet sump stuff and installing the factory dry sump oil pump and z06 oil pan. At some point down the road it will have a vacuum pump on it. There will likely be another cam to try in it for the next dyno session too.
"I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general. From a scientific standpoint, you always look at thing probabilistically and not definitively."

Elon Musk

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Re: 429 sbc ls build

Post by steve316 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:48 am

Thanks for reply; Good Luck

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