New domain: www.Speed-Talk.com

The forum is currently running on the new domain and server. The old domain will remain active for a short while to forward any (less frequent) visitors.
IMPORTANT: Update your bookmarks to https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/

Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Newold1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:13 pm

As some here may know from a previous post I am in the market for a new pickup truck until my new all electric Rivian pickup is available sometime in 2020.

I have been looking at and studying some of the new trucks available from at least the big three.

Very troubling that a lot of the talk and articles about power and fuel mileage on some of these new beasts, the accurate independent reporting says the average fuel mileage being delivered from all three is very disappointing when you learn that they are all rated in normal v-6 and v8 engines they are rated by EPA (That's a whole other discussion subject)at about 20-21 MPG in combined driving are ONLY DELIVERING about 16-17 MPG.

This is really horrible news for vehicles that are supposed to be delivering better mileage to meet the ever increasing federal standards.

I know some here are going to say so what, "IT'S A TRUCK!" I say so what! I drive a lot of miles per year and when you consider three other important thoughts you might see my concerns:

1. In any type of decent equipment , power, features and nice everyday usable options these new beasts are now in the $50K -$70K ranges WOW and they ain't discounting them much! OK so lease one and the depreciation the lease companies bring them back out will empty your wallet of a major sum of dollars for drive off and the monthly lease makes the monthly lease payment an estate draining amount!

2. These new trucks have a front end getting hugely taller to a point where no wonder they are getting poor mileage, they look like pushing the side of a barn down the road. Don't they know anything about frontal areas and CD numbers!? Must be that macho "Bubba Big Truck" mentality pushing the market. They are so front end tall now unless you are 6'5" you can't even lift the hood and look in without a ladder!

3. I know some will say get a diesel. I don't want to own a diesel for a few reasons. One they are not getting the milage the earlier diesels did before that lovely blue additive and particulates entered the marketplace. Two, the diesel fuels are about $.30 more on average and that 10% more for fuel and blue additive does not ddo much for the 10% or so better milage they provide. I don't pull heavy trailers or such and don't need the 900 lb/ft. of torque they can provide.The diesel trucks are frigg'in crazy expensive!

4. The CRAZY middle Easteners, the WACKO Russians and other unpredictable characters and problems in the oil producing areas of the world the price of oil can and most likely will jump up to what ever they decide the market will bear. The US production can't offset this control because we can't possible produce enough to supply the whole worlds needs nor possibly ship that quantity around the world!
Don't believe this talk that we the US won't be affected by that, boloney! When the price of oil spikes up with these crazy monopolies the price of oil selling in the market from US shale producers will spike up the same percentage. These US oil producers are smart businessmen and they are not going to subsidize the cost of US oil to be "Good Guys"!

Bit of a challenge for me to decide on what to do. I know I am not going to empty my wallet and sign for one of these monsters until I either loose my mind or figure out a decent economic decision.

I know one thing for sure, DAMN, Rivian please hurry and get me my new Electric Truck!
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

swampbuggy
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:54 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by swampbuggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Newold1, what will this pick-up truck need to do for you, what will the demands/loads be ? Mark H.

Newold1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Hauling a few engines and parts loads. Once in a while hauling my wifes collection of hoardings to the dump once in awhile! HA! Live in the Northeast and using my little snow plow to clear my long driveway.
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

swampbuggy
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:54 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by swampbuggy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Why don't you just buy a 2 to 3 year old low mileage 3/4 ton what ever until you get your battery operated silent truck and save a bunch ? Mark H. :D

Brian P
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Brian P » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:54 pm

The current full size model with the best (probable) real world fuel consumption, and which is not a diesel, is probably the Ram with 3.6 V6 and 8 speed automatic. If you are not doing heavy towing, it will get the job done just fine. Stay away from the Hemi V8 if fuel consumption means anything to you. Staying with the base powertrain also keeps the price tag under control. Even the base model of that truck is still a decent place to be. Ram lets you get that powertrain even with trim levels above contractor-grade.

Or, drop down a size class (not much, in reality) to a Colorado, or the new Ranger.

travis
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 807
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:31 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by travis » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:18 pm

The price of new trucks is completely ridiculous. But...people want big vehicles and will pay whatever for them, so where is the manufactures motivation to even offer a decent discount on one?

We bought a 2017 Ford Expedition EL this spring, with the 3.5 Ecoboost. We have 5 kids and needed the seating capacity, and the wife didn’t want another minivan. Other than size, which feels like driving a small bus when driving in the big city or trying to park in the continually shrinking parking spaces, I love it. Low end torque is incomparable to any other gas engine I’ve driven in a newer vehicle...this big girl definitely has some hustle! Tows 5-6000 pounds so easily. I just recently took it on a trip from north east Texas to north west Montana, running 80+ mph most of the time when on the highways, and averaged 21.7mpg.

Keith Morganstein
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 5553
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:19 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Keith Morganstein » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:21 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:13 pm
As some here may know from a previous post I am in the market for a new pickup truck until my new all electric Rivian pickup is available sometime in 2020.

I have been looking at and studying some of the new trucks available from at least the big three.

Very troubling that a lot of the talk and articles about power and fuel mileage on some of these new beasts, the accurate independent reporting says the average fuel mileage being delivered from all three is very disappointing when you learn that they are all rated in normal v-6 and v8 engines they are rated by EPA (That's a whole other discussion subject)at about 20-21 MPG in combined driving are ONLY DELIVERING about 16-17 MPG.

This is really horrible news for vehicles that are supposed to be delivering better mileage to meet the ever increasing federal standards.

I know some here are going to say so what, "IT'S A TRUCK!" I say so what! I drive a lot of miles per year and when you consider three other important thoughts you might see my concerns:

1. In any type of decent equipment , power, features and nice everyday usable options these new beasts are now in the $50K -$70K ranges WOW and they ain't discounting them much! OK so lease one and the depreciation the lease companies bring them back out will empty your wallet of a major sum of dollars for drive off and the monthly lease makes the monthly lease payment an estate draining amount!

2. These new trucks have a front end getting hugely taller to a point where no wonder they are getting poor mileage, they look like pushing the side of a barn down the road. Don't they know anything about frontal areas and CD numbers!? Must be that macho "Bubba Big Truck" mentality pushing the market. They are so front end tall now unless you are 6'5" you can't even lift the hood and look in without a ladder!

3. I know some will say get a diesel. I don't want to own a diesel for a few reasons. One they are not getting the milage the earlier diesels did before that lovely blue additive and particulates entered the marketplace. Two, the diesel fuels are about $.30 more on average and that 10% more for fuel and blue additive does not ddo much for the 10% or so better milage they provide. I don't pull heavy trailers or such and don't need the 900 lb/ft. of torque they can provide.The diesel trucks are frigg'in crazy expensive!

4. The CRAZY middle Easteners, the WACKO Russians and other unpredictable characters and problems in the oil producing areas of the world the price of oil can and most likely will jump up to what ever they decide the market will bear. The US production can't offset this control because we can't possible produce enough to supply the whole worlds needs nor possibly ship that quantity around the world!
Don't believe this talk that we the US won't be affected by that, boloney! When the price of oil spikes up with these crazy monopolies the price of oil selling in the market from US shale producers will spike up the same percentage. These US oil producers are smart businessmen and they are not going to subsidize the cost of US oil to be "Good Guys"!

Bit of a challenge for me to decide on what to do. I know I am not going to empty my wallet and sign for one of these monsters until I either loose my mind or figure out a decent economic decision.

I know one thing for sure, DAMN, Rivian please hurry and get me my new Electric Truck!

1) Trucks are the major profit makers for these automakers.
2) Its all about image. Me in my big new truck with its big bad grille.
3) I wouldn’t buy a diesel unless hauling/towing heavy loads.
4) Don’t count on oil prices staying low.

IDK about electric. OK for local, but what if you want cover long distance in a short time?
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Can't seem to quit #-o

pcnsd
Expert
Expert
Posts: 502
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:04 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by pcnsd » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:42 pm

travis wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:18 pm
The price of new trucks is completely ridiculous. But...people want big vehicles and will pay whatever for them, so where is the manufactures motivation to even offer a decent discount on one?

We bought a 2017 Ford Expedition EL this spring, with the 3.5 Ecoboost. We have 5 kids and needed the seating capacity, and the wife didn’t want another minivan. Other than size, which feels like driving a small bus when driving in the big city or trying to park in the continually shrinking parking spaces, I love it. Low end torque is incomparable to any other gas engine I’ve driven in a newer vehicle...this big girl definitely has some hustle! Tows 5-6000 pounds so easily. I just recently took it on a trip from north east Texas to north west Montana, running 80+ mph most of the time when on the highways, and averaged 21.7mpg.
I agree. There is no need for a new "work truck". This should be particularly true for STers that should know their way around a vehicle. My 1996 Cheyenne 1500 with the V6 went 316K when I sold it to another as a work truck in 2015 for $1500. Still passed smog and got 24-25mpg hwy with the 5 speed OD manual Trans. I replaced it with similar 2007 work truck for $6k with 92K miles. I plan on driving it for 300K too, but it only gets 20 mpg on the hwy. I ride a 50+mpg motorcycle when the sun shines and I don't need to haul. I consider work vehicles to be a consumable. No fancy stuff required or desired. For work vehicles it should be about minimizing total cost of mile use. If you are starting at $65k and lose 1/3 of that the day you take possession, then you are already operating at a loss.
- Paul

Newold1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:49 pm

I think I'll just find a low miles well cared for 2-3 year old 1/2 ton heavy duty pickup with some thing like Dodge's V-6 Penstar, Ford Eco-Boost V-6 or GM 5.3 deactive V-8 and let the original buyer take the depreciation hit. In the mean time I'll get by just fine I guess and wait for my Rivian electric pickup.

The Rivian electric pickup will go 400 miles on a charge and that will do just fine.

Besides I am tired of trying to think us consumers will ever get the BIG Three to understand what the consumer really needs in a truck. The corporate leadership at those companies don't own or drive trucks!! :roll:
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

Newold1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:49 pm

I think I'll just find a low miles well cared for 2-3 year old 1/2 ton heavy duty pickup with some thing like Dodge's V-6 Penstar, Ford Eco-Boost V-6 or GM 5.3 deactive V-8 and let the original buyer take the depreciation hit. In the mean time I'll get by just fine I guess and wait for my Rivian electric pickup.

The Rivian electric pickup will go 400 miles on a charge and that will do just fine.

Besides I am tired of trying to think us consumers will ever get the BIG Three to understand what the consumer really needs in a truck. The corporate leadership at those companies don't own or drive trucks!! :roll:
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

pamotorman
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2755
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by pamotorman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:59 pm

my 2018 5.3 silverado will do 15 to 18 everyday driving and 24 to 26 on the 200 mile one way trip to camp using the truck computer. mine has the towing package with a 3.42 gears so it would do better with the standard gears. it is 2 to 4 MPG better than my 2013 with a 5.3 with the same setup. it shits and gets if you get on the loud pedal.

SupStk
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1552
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by SupStk » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:06 pm

Last year went through the same deal. Needed a HD pickup for towing and a slide in pickup camper. Don't put a large number of miles on in a year and didn't want to spend a fortune. Looked around for a 3/4 or one ton that was maybe 3-5 years old with under 75,000 miles. Good luck with that, most all were diesels with 100k+ Miles and over $50k. Checked out the big three since I really don't have a brand preference.
Ended up ordering a new Ford Super Duty XL super cab 4x4 with 6.2 gas, optional 4.30 gears, electronic locker, camper package, skid plates, inverter, and the XL value package. After incentives it came in at $36,250.
No gas mileage champ but does 18 mpg on the highway and a little over 14 around town. Towing a 18,000 lb. loaded dump trailer in the hills it makes 8.5 mpg and does a decent job dragging it around.
May not be everyone's choice but think I could live with it for for the next 10 years.
Monty Frerichs
B&M Machine

Roundybout
Pro
Pro
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:09 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by Roundybout » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:54 pm

If you’re planning on a 2020 delivery for a Rivan you’ll be money ahead to buy a nice used truck for the time being. Trucks do hold their value well but you’ll be taking a huge hit on the purchase buying new compared to used, especially if you’ll only have it a couple years.

JodyB
Member
Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:46 pm

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by JodyB » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:40 pm

A friend just bought one of the best new truck deals in my opinion. A 2018 chevy 2500 basemodel worktruck. Plastic seats and flooring. 4 wheel drive, 4 doors, single rear wheels, no options. L96 6.0 ls motor still has traditional multiport fuel injection, variable cam timing but no displacement on demand, 6L90 auto. $36000

GerryP
New Member
New Member
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:26 am

Re: Performance in 2019 BIG 3 trucks !

Post by GerryP » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:41 pm

From what you're describing, you don't NEED a truck at all. You could do just fine with a smaller SUV...or even a car. Just put a trailer hitch on your tow vehicle and buy the right-sized trailer. This would give you boundless options including replacing the vehicle with whatever else you want. You'll own the trailer for as long as you want that option.

A number to things are inaccurate in your bemoaning the Big Three and their trucks. But you probably already knew that.

Post Reply