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stock eliminator roller cam lobe

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Rowdy Yates
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stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Rowdy Yates » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:33 pm

Can a lobe be done, that has more lift (vs normal SE* racing cams) & has more area under the curve vs a normal cam....or does some make 1 already? Just would like to know. Was looking at a old engine power show with Samtech and there Copo limited cam. Figure if it has that much more area under the curve why not have one with the lift wanted.

Sumtingwong
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Sumtingwong » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 pm

So a high lift Dwell nose profile? How much additional area are you looking for and where? And what does your current camshaft map out at?

Rowdy Yates
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Rowdy Yates » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:35 pm

Just was asking brother guy's at bullet explained it, there harsher for what i was thinking....800 lift with a good amount of dwell time. Was told harder to control.


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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Sumtingwong » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:20 pm

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:35 pm
Just was asking brother guy's at bullet explained it, there harsher for what i was thinking....800 lift with a good amount of dwell time. Was told harder to control.
You building a LS for a class car? What are the details?

Rowdy Yates
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Rowdy Yates » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:08 pm

No class just HP wanted........Have 2 cams for 2 different heads just asking a question I didn't know.

cgarb
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by cgarb » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am

Probably because there is only so much of the angle you can work with...so many degrees duration. If you want more lift it takes away from the amount of dwell you can have. You can't just pop the valve open, if the lobe was that steep it would side load the lifter and bind.

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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by pdq67 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:04 am

Might consider getting more lift from a rocker arm ratio increase??

pdq67

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CamKing
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by CamKing » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:18 am

If you're not limited to a given lift, by rules, it's easier on the valvetrain, to get the area, by increasing the lift, then by adding dwell at max lift.
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by MELWAY » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:50 pm

CamKing wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:18 am
If you're not limited to a given lift, by rules, it's easier on the valvetrain, to get the area, by increasing the lift, then by adding dwell at max lift.
Is this because there is more real estate to slow the motion down at nose before changing direction

If you look at 2 almost identical lobes. Same durations everywhere. But 1 has .400” love lift the other .440”.
Which one is more stable and easy on parts?
3370lb Sedan 9.89@136MPH 358chevN/A

1972ho
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by 1972ho » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:01 pm

Like this same spec ones a stocker.
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Stan Weiss
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Stan Weiss » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:57 am

MELWAY wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:50 pm
CamKing wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:18 am
If you're not limited to a given lift, by rules, it's easier on the valvetrain, to get the area, by increasing the lift, then by adding dwell at max lift.
Is this because there is more real estate to slow the motion down at nose before changing direction

If you look at 2 almost identical lobes. Same durations everywhere. But 1 has .400” love lift the other .440”.
Which one is more stable and easy on parts?
I am not a cam designed. But the only way I can see them having the duration ever where is if the .400" lobe is the .440" with the top removed. If that is the case the .440" lobe will be more stable and easy on parts.

I look forward to seeing what Mike has to say.

Stan
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We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

paulzig
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by paulzig » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:14 pm

CamKing wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:18 am
If you're not limited to a given lift, by rules, it's easier on the valvetrain, to get the area, by increasing the lift, then by adding dwell at max lift.
If you have a cam that is .550 vs one that is .750" how much dwell over the nose would you need on the .550" cam to offset the .200" lift difference?

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Stan Weiss
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Stan Weiss » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:02 am

paulzig wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:14 pm
CamKing wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:18 am
If you're not limited to a given lift, by rules, it's easier on the valvetrain, to get the area, by increasing the lift, then by adding dwell at max lift.
If you have a cam that is .550 vs one that is .750" how much dwell over the nose would you need on the .550" cam to offset the .200" lift difference?
This is using a Cam DR file for a Comp Cams solid roller. The card give numbers with a 1.65:1 rocker. I used a 1.8:1 to get around 0.750" net valve lift. Notice the duration at the valve at 0.550" lift. I can no calculate how much area would be lost if the nose is changed to dwell.

Stan

Code: Select all

VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Area
_________0.00000____47.64_|__84.31_|_311.95_|__66.54
_________0.00600____44.76_|__81.03_|_305.79_|__66.52
_________0.01000____43.06_|__79.05_|_302.11_|__66.51
_________0.02000____39.31_|__74.68_|_293.99_|__66.44
_________0.04000____33.26_|__67.84_|_281.10_|__66.25
_________0.05000____30.73_|__65.09_|_275.82_|__66.10
_________0.10000____20.51_|__54.22_|_254.73_|__65.33
_________0.15000____12.49_|__45.87_|_238.36_|__64.32
_________0.20000_____5.47_|__38.66_|_224.13_|__62.89
_________0.25000____-1.08_|__31.97_|_210.89_|__61.51
_________0.30000____-7.43_|__25.63_|_198.20_|__59.53
_________0.35000___-13.73_|__19.29_|_185.57_|__57.53
_________0.40000___-20.17_|__12.81_|_172.64_|__54.87
_________0.43000___-24.12_|___8.83_|_164.71_|__53.17
_________0.45000___-26.81_|___6.11_|_159.31_|__52.27
_________0.50000___-33.85_|__-0.96_|_145.20_|__48.41
_________0.55000___-41.55_|__-8.63_|_129.82_|__44.66  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
_________0.60000___-50.21_|_-17.28_|_112.51_|__39.44
_________0.65000___-60.44_|_-27.48_|__92.07_|__33.12
_________0.70000___-73.69_|_-40.58_|__65.73_|__24.28
_________0.75000__-100.89_|_-66.71_|__12.40_|___4.51
CAM
_________0.00600____56.01_|__92.95_|_328.96_|__39.04
_________0.01000____50.50_|__87.43_|_317.93_|__39.00
_________0.02000____41.86_|__77.65_|_299.51_|__38.83
_________0.04000____30.98_|__65.35_|_276.33_|__38.48
_________0.05000____26.89_|__60.95_|_267.84_|__38.29
_________0.10000____11.47_|__44.82_|_236.29_|__37.07
_________0.15000____-0.70_|__32.36_|_211.67_|__35.53
_________0.20000___-12.08_|__20.95_|_188.87_|__33.37
_________0.25000___-23.72_|___9.23_|_165.51_|__30.83
_________0.30000___-36.39_|__-3.48_|_140.13_|__27.21
_________0.35000___-51.53_|_-18.59_|_109.88_|__22.27
_________0.40000___-72.76_|_-39.65_|__67.59_|__14.31
_________0.43000__-103.12_|_-68.78_|___8.10_|___1.72
Stan Weiss / World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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Stan Weiss
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Re: stock eliminator roller cam lobe

Post by Stan Weiss » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am

The original lobe with the top removed.

Code: Select all

VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Area
_________0.00000____47.64_|__84.31_|_311.95_|__57.70
_________0.00600____44.76_|__81.03_|_305.79_|__57.68
_________0.01000____43.06_|__79.05_|_302.11_|__57.66
_________0.02000____39.31_|__74.68_|_293.99_|__57.59
_________0.04000____33.26_|__67.84_|_281.10_|__57.40
_________0.05000____30.73_|__65.09_|_275.82_|__57.25
_________0.10000____20.51_|__54.22_|_254.73_|__56.48
_________0.15000____12.49_|__45.87_|_238.36_|__55.48
_________0.20000_____5.47_|__38.66_|_224.13_|__54.05
_________0.25000____-1.08_|__31.97_|_210.89_|__52.66
_________0.30000____-7.43_|__25.63_|_198.20_|__50.68
_________0.31900____-9.82_|__23.24_|_193.42_|__49.74
_________0.35000___-13.73_|__19.29_|_185.57_|__48.68
_________0.40000___-20.17_|__12.81_|_172.64_|__46.02
_________0.45000___-26.81_|___6.11_|_159.31_|__43.43
_________0.50000___-33.85_|__-0.96_|_145.20_|__39.56
_________0.55000___-41.55_|__-9.55_|_128.90_|__35.82
CAM
_________0.00600____56.01_|__92.95_|_328.96_|__34.13
_________0.01000____50.50_|__87.43_|_317.93_|__34.08
_________0.02000____41.86_|__77.65_|_299.51_|__33.92
_________0.04000____30.98_|__65.35_|_276.33_|__33.57
_________0.05000____26.89_|__60.95_|_267.84_|__33.38
_________0.10000____11.47_|__44.82_|_236.29_|__32.15
_________0.15000____-0.70_|__32.36_|_211.67_|__30.61
_________0.20000___-12.08_|__20.95_|_188.87_|__28.45
_________0.25000___-23.72_|___9.23_|_165.51_|__25.92
_________0.30000___-36.39_|__-3.48_|_140.13_|__22.30
_________0.31900___-41.74_|_-10.22_|_128.04_|__20.73
With dwell added to get same area.

Code: Select all

VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Area
_________0.00000____47.64_|_116.31_|_343.95_|__66.52
_________0.00600____44.76_|_113.03_|_337.79_|__66.50
_________0.01000____43.06_|_111.05_|_334.11_|__66.48
_________0.02000____39.31_|_106.68_|_325.99_|__66.41
_________0.04000____33.26_|__99.84_|_313.10_|__66.22
_________0.05000____30.73_|__97.09_|_307.82_|__66.07
_________0.10000____20.51_|__86.22_|_286.73_|__65.30
_________0.15000____12.49_|__77.87_|_270.36_|__64.30
_________0.20000_____5.47_|__70.66_|_256.13_|__62.87
_________0.25000____-1.08_|__63.97_|_242.89_|__61.48
_________0.30000____-7.43_|__57.63_|_230.20_|__59.50
_________0.31900____-9.82_|__55.24_|_225.42_|__58.56
_________0.35000___-13.73_|__51.29_|_217.57_|__57.50
_________0.40000___-20.17_|__44.81_|_204.64_|__54.84
_________0.45000___-26.81_|__38.11_|_191.31_|__52.25
_________0.50000___-33.85_|__31.04_|_177.20_|__48.38
_________0.55000___-41.55_|__22.45_|_160.90_|__44.64
CAM
_________0.00600____56.01_|_124.95_|_360.96_|__39.23
_________0.01000____50.50_|_119.43_|_349.93_|__39.19
_________0.02000____41.86_|_109.65_|_331.51_|__39.02
_________0.04000____30.98_|__97.35_|_308.33_|__38.67
_________0.05000____26.89_|__92.95_|_299.84_|__38.48
_________0.10000____11.47_|__76.82_|_268.29_|__37.26
_________0.15000____-0.70_|__64.36_|_243.67_|__35.72
_________0.20000___-12.08_|__52.95_|_220.87_|__33.56
_________0.25000___-23.72_|__41.23_|_197.51_|__31.02
_________0.30000___-36.39_|__28.52_|_172.13_|__27.40
_________0.31900___-41.74_|__21.78_|_160.04_|__25.84
Stan
ab-comp161-dwell.gif
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Stan Weiss / World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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