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Willy's Super Bowls

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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mekilljoydammit
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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by mekilljoydammit » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:20 am

jmarkaudio wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:08 am
mekilljoydammit wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:27 pm
Mike Laws wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:19 pm


I made this video while still at my former company. The primary bowl (on the right) actually had a top feed n/s with a .250" needle size and the secondary was a normal top feed .110". The primary n/s was run at 2 psi (low psi-hi flow) while the secondary was run at 6 psi. The difference in aeration is apparent. Once fuel aeration before the main jet is calmed down, tuning consistency and overall power always improved. Willy's bowls also reduce/eliminate aeration, just in a different way.
Bit late to the party... is there anywhere where I could get an 0.250" needle and seat off the shelf, or am I better off breaking out my lathe?

BLP still has some I believe. They are coupled with a machined float bowl that allows the larger OD N&S to fit. Anything you do to minimize aeration of the fuel will help. As far as N&S size you can get up to a .150 in a viton tip, .170 in stainless or Ti. I have heard of some custom stuff up in the .180-.190 range for a stock bowl, not sure of how well they work.
I'll have to give them a call. I'm actually looking at doing something pretty weird, essentially trying to convert a Weber downdraft to a Holley style N&S, so there'll be machining involved anyway. :mrgreen:

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by chevyfreak » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:45 am

[quote=mekilljoydammit
essentially trying to convert a Weber downdraft to a Holley style N&S, so there'll be machining involved anyway. :mrgreen:
[/quote]

If i may ask. Which downdraft weber and as to why you want to convert?
Webers have a wide range of sizes and some high flow types as well. And majority of them use the same needle and seat.

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by mekilljoydammit » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:34 am

chevyfreak wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:45 am
[quote=mekilljoydammit
essentially trying to convert a Weber downdraft to a Holley style N&S, so there'll be machining involved anyway. :mrgreen:
If i may ask. Which downdraft weber and as to why you want to convert?
Webers have a wide range of sizes and some high flow types as well. And majority of them use the same needle and seat.

Chevyfreak.
[/quote]

This is a weird application but a Weber IDA downdraft for a Mazda rotary for roadrace duty. The largest available 3mm needle and seat has been shown to have aeration (or starvation) issues as frankly it was never designed to flow 300hp worth of fuel - I doubt the 3.2mm grose jets would be better. In the past tricks were applied to make a floatless carb like the Super Bowl in concept but they're outlawed - some used to make 6mm N&S too but they got out of that business. I was going to just make one of my own but being able to adjust float bowl level from the outside seems like it would be nice.

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by chevyfreak » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:53 am

mekilljoydammit wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:34 am
chevyfreak wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:45 am
[quote=mekilljoydammit
essentially trying to convert a Weber downdraft to a Holley style N&S, so there'll be machining involved anyway. :mrgreen:
If i may ask. Which downdraft weber and as to why you want to convert?
Webers have a wide range of sizes and some high flow types as well. And majority of them use the same needle and seat.

Chevyfreak.
This is a weird application but a Weber IDA downdraft for a Mazda rotary for roadrace duty. The largest available 3mm needle and seat has been shown to have aeration (or starvation) issues as frankly it was never designed to flow 300hp worth of fuel - I doubt the 3.2mm grose jets would be better. In the past tricks were applied to make a floatless carb like the Super Bowl in concept but they're outlawed - some used to make 6mm N&S too but they got out of that business. I was going to just make one of my own but being able to adjust float bowl level from the outside seems like it would be nice.
[/quote.
Just curious. Hence the question.
I used webers alot. But mainly 36dcd and then 38dgv.
Over here biggest n/s is 3.5mm. But they have to order it And know of some sidedrafts guys that used 4.5mm .

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by levisnteeshirt » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:03 pm

Why items like these strike my interest , is I go to the track and have to listen to racers complain after they spend crazy money on parts their engine builder swears they have to get and it produces zero or negative results ,, so my comments are from that point of view ,, I am skeptical of anything someone else declares is a total must have

mekilljoydammit
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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by mekilljoydammit » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:54 pm

I understand "skeptical". Even if something makes sense it doesn't mean it works. I'm a big believer in careful testing where possible.

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by BlitzA64 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:12 pm

Skeptical is why I asked the question. What feedback I have gotten elsewhere including carb builders other than the mfg. that makes the product have all been favorable. I'm not looking to make more power I am looking to keep stuff from going lean and getting hurt. It cost me an engine removal, disassembly, a set of rings, gaskets, and a hone to repair this time not to mention a week off of work and a 2,000 mile round trip tow. I will celebrate the price if I never have that issue again. I guess we'll see.

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by levisnteeshirt » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:13 pm

I wonder what fuel pump is being used in these videos ,, a reciprocating pump like a mechanical or a sliding vane or gear type electrical ,, way back a long time ago using a clear fuel filter after an electric pump I never saw any bubbles in the filter , maybe 1 large bubble , if ya maneuver the filter it can be let to escape

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by BlitzA64 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:06 pm

A lot of the air/foam is introduced by the needle/seat being above fuel level. Sort of like squirting a hose into a half full bucket of water. Take that hose nozzle and put it under the surface and there is quite a difference. Smaller seat hole requiring more pressure is an issue as well. Bigger seat hole, less pressure less air.

I doubt the fuel pump would be a big cause unless it is sucking air somewhere. I have encountered a split pick up tube in a tank before with mechanical fuel injection. It would run fine until the engine hit about 4500 then just die. It would pull air when the demand started getting high and that was all she wrote. Took me quite a while to find that one...... the joys of racing

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by Racer57 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:51 pm

Have a customer running one of these carbs. He loves how it drives on the track never a hiccup or studder. They are very durable he is on his 3rd year with the carb and it still performs very well. The only problem I have seen with the setup in general is the fuel pump. It takes a 16psi pump to supply the carb and return the fuel to the tank. The spring in pump is twice as stiff as a normal billet pump so it is extremely hard on your camshaft and pump push rod. The diaphragms have to be checked because the stud will pull through and the diaphragm will need replacing. You will need to check on your fuel pump pushrod. After 1000 laps the end was almost worn through. Other than keeping an eye on the fuel pump I can say the system has functioned very well for him. This customer could break a ball bearing and has yet to ruin the carb or a motor yet!

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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by Krooser » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:40 pm

Pix to help those who have not seen this set-up...
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Re: Willy's Super Bowls

Post by In-Tech » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:44 am

Hi Krooser, love your sig line btw.
I understand the barrel valve and think I figured out the rest of the plumbing and check valves. Can you post some more pictures of inlet and outlets? It all seems like a good concept and must obviously work. I'm missing some things in the pics. :(
Thanks,
-Carl
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl

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