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SBF 20° head preference

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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CGT
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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by CGT » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:09 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:04 am
CGT wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm
So the high port head is raised runner i assume? Does it use a dedicated manifold? I did some looking and didnt see bare unported castings anywhere.
The "High Port" head has a larger and much raised EXHAUST port with a different flange bolt pattern;
the intake port is near the production location.
Thanks Walter. Are they typically in need of a larger exhaust port? The reason I ask is, from looking at castings online without measuring all the exhaust ports or knowing lengths, they kinda look to big on all of them already, maybe the pics are deceiving?
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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by cab0154 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:11 am

CGT wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:52 am
cab0154 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:11 am
CGT wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:46 pm


Any idea where pics of the chamber could be found?
i have some. I would post them, but i am at work and i cant access my imgur due to some of our software. PM me your email and I will send them to you. you will likely need an offset rocker at least on the intake to get the geometry half way decent. the guideplates on mines were a real pain, and i didnt feel like spending a ton of $ trying to find an intake rocker that would work, so i called T&D.
Thanks I'll do that. The AFR heads I mentioned earlier, I ended up finding a slightly offset rocker at Harland Sharp that made things a little nicer and allowed me to squeeze a 3/8 pushrod in it. Not perfect by any means but way better than it was, that and the split guideplates. He needs shaft rockers, bottom line. lol
IMO, on a big bore you dont need relocated valves. So the AFR would be fine. I will say this, my profilers with a good valvejob and a 2.08 flowed 328 and never stalled.
"Anyone who thinks the low RPM engine will be faster just does not have as much experience as the rest of us" -The late, great Joe Sherman.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:18 am

CGT wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:09 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:04 am
CGT wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:36 pm
So the high port head is raised runner i assume? Does it use a dedicated manifold? I did some looking and didnt see bare unported castings anywhere.
The "High Port" head has a larger and much raised EXHAUST port with a different flange bolt pattern;
the intake port is near the production location.
Thanks Walter. Are they typically in need of a larger exhaust port? The reason I ask is, from looking at castings online without measuring all the exhaust ports or knowing lengths, they kinda look to big on all of them already, maybe the pics are deceiving?
The part number I gave was for an assembled head but, they do offer a BARE head, (with the CNC 64cc combustion chambers), under the part number TFS-5171B0001-M64

Most photos show an oval type exhaust port which all the CNC versions have ... the out of the box version has a smaller squarish exhaust port shape.

The best part is that they are only $600.00 each right from Trick Flow.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by CGT » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:18 am
CGT wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:09 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:04 am


The "High Port" head has a larger and much raised EXHAUST port with a different flange bolt pattern;
the intake port is near the production location.
Thanks Walter. Are they typically in need of a larger exhaust port? The reason I ask is, from looking at castings online without measuring all the exhaust ports or knowing lengths, they kinda look to big on all of them already, maybe the pics are deceiving?
The part number I gave was for an assembled head but, they do offer a BARE head, (with the CNC 64cc combustion chambers), under the part number TFS-5171B0001-M64

Most photos show an oval type exhaust port which all the CNC versions have ... the out of the box version has a smaller squarish exhaust port shape.

The best part is that they are only $600.00 each right from Trick Flow.
Wow. That's good information. It seems like I've seen a 70cc chamber listed, that would better suit this deal. Am I imagining this or is that something someone has CNC'd? Thanks again. Are you a dealer by chance?
There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.
Mark Twain

Golf is a good walk spoiled.
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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by CGT » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:14 pm

profiler chamber(1).jpg
profiler shafts.jpg
profiler offset5.jpg
profiler offset4.jpg
Thanks Cab. I hope you don't mind I went ahead and put the pics up in case anyone else was interested.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.
Mark Twain

Golf is a good walk spoiled.
Mark Twain

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:35 pm

CGT wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:18 am


The part number I gave was for an assembled head but, they do offer a BARE head, (with the CNC 64cc combustion chambers), under the part number TFS-5171B0001-M64

Most photos show an oval type exhaust port which all the CNC versions have ... the out of the box version has a smaller squarish exhaust port shape.

The best part is that they are only $600.00 each right from Trick Flow.
Wow. That's good information. It seems like I've seen a 70cc chamber listed, that would better suit this deal. Am I imagining this or is that something someone has CNC'd? Thanks again. Are you a dealer by chance?
Those "as cast port" heads are only available with the 64cc chamber; bare or assembled.
I am not a dealer however, I have used at least 15 pair in the last 20 years and buy them assembled through Motor State.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by cab0154 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:18 pm

CGT wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:14 pm
profiler chamber(1).jpgprofiler shafts.jpgprofiler offset5.jpgprofiler offset4.jpg

Thanks Cab. I hope you don't mind I went ahead and put the pics up in case anyone else was interested.
No problem.
"Anyone who thinks the low RPM engine will be faster just does not have as much experience as the rest of us" -The late, great Joe Sherman.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by Old as Dirt » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:38 pm

Cab0154.. can you provide the intake offset when you went with the T&D shafts?
Went to the site, but no information on the Profiler/Shaft setup..
Appreciate any info.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by cab0154 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:51 pm

Give me a couple days. Ill have to go down to the shop and check it. TFS High Ports are .120, so I am going to go out on a limb and say they are more than that. They did not say it had relocated valves, so I was rather surprised when I went to setup the valvetrain. Then I found out profiler used a z head core box to make the head. Had I been able to get a good pattern with the guideplates, i would have run it pigeon toed. I was reading that harland sharp will work with people on getting them the right offset rockers for the application. that would have been less expensive.
"Anyone who thinks the low RPM engine will be faster just does not have as much experience as the rest of us" -The late, great Joe Sherman.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by Old as Dirt » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:08 am

Gotcha.. Sent a form request to T&D and was told "Part number is 7319, Price is $1364.00 Time frame is right at 3 weeks out right now"
So I looked in the catalog online.. supposedly .170 IN/.080 EX (http://tdmach.com/catalog/#p=14)
Appreciate your efforts.. and photo's..

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by cab0154 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:59 am

interesting it says the z304 is .250, and the profiler is supposed to be the z head core box. but it has them at .170/.080. interesting. when i was setting up the stud stuff it looked to me like the profiler offset was more than the high port, i read many years ago that the H/P was .120 and the canfield was .110. but t&d uses .170 for the profiler and canfield with the H/P at .220". all i can say is my t&ds fit great.
"Anyone who thinks the low RPM engine will be faster just does not have as much experience as the rest of us" -The late, great Joe Sherman.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by lance flake » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:57 am

cab0154 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:59 am
interesting it says the z304 is .250, and the profiler is supposed to be the z head core box. but it has them at .170/.080. interesting. when i was setting up the stud stuff it looked to me like the profiler offset was more than the high port, i read many years ago that the H/P was .120 and the canfield was .110. but t&d uses .170 for the profiler and canfield with the H/P at .220". all i can say is my t&ds fit great.
If memory serves me right i think there is 2 different valve spaceings the z304 head. I can't remember the specific numbers right off it has been to long since i have been there.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by cab0154 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:09 am

after thinking about it, i think the early z head was the .250. it had been a few years. i found some info on the z304 DA heads that say it needs a .150" offset intake rocker. so that might be the corebox profiler used.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m6049z304da
"Anyone who thinks the low RPM engine will be faster just does not have as much experience as the rest of us" -The late, great Joe Sherman.

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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:44 pm

lance flake wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:57 am
cab0154 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:59 am
interesting it says the z304 is .250, and the profiler is supposed to be the z head core box. but it has them at .170/.080. interesting. when i was setting up the stud stuff it looked to me like the profiler offset was more than the high port, i read many years ago that the H/P was .120 and the canfield was .110. but t&d uses .170 for the profiler and canfield with the H/P at .220". all i can say is my t&ds fit great.
If memory serves me right i think there is 2 different valve spaceings the z304 head. I can't remember the specific numbers right off it has been to long since i have been there.
The valve locations are the same in all Z304 heads but, the intake stud location is spaced different ... the later heads used an offset pushrod cup intake rocker arm and a different guideplate.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
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Re: SBF 20° head preference

Post by lance flake » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:33 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:44 pm
lance flake wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:57 am
cab0154 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:59 am
interesting it says the z304 is .250, and the profiler is supposed to be the z head core box. but it has them at .170/.080. interesting. when i was setting up the stud stuff it looked to me like the profiler offset was more than the high port, i read many years ago that the H/P was .120 and the canfield was .110. but t&d uses .170 for the profiler and canfield with the H/P at .220". all i can say is my t&ds fit great.
If memory serves me right i think there is 2 different valve spaceings the z304 head. I can't remember the specific numbers right off it has been to long since i have been there.
The valve locations are the same in all Z304 heads but, the intake stud location is spaced different ... the later heads used an offset pushrod cup intake rocker arm and a different guideplate.
Thanks Walter. I knew there was some difference but it has been about 10 years since I have used a set.

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