New domain: www.Speed-Talk.com

The forum is currently running on the new domain and server. The old domain will remain active for a while to forward any (less frequent) visitors.
Update your bookmarks to https://www.speed-talk.com or
https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/

Venting about so called "builders"

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

barnym17
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1130
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 4:37 pm

Venting about so called "builders"

Post by barnym17 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:57 am

Buddy asked me to go with him for his first night out Saturday, sat in stands to watch handling during hotlaps the engine ine question is a 387 sbc with rhs heads, roller and was told 14 to 1 squeeze.As I set there watching the green drops I hear and engine hunting ducks "missing and popping badly"sure enough its him. I head to the pits check the collectors sure enough bone white so pull #1 plug to confirm lean condition as im looking at the plug I see the thread on the end has been hit"flattened " right now I'm pretty sure piston to plug clearance wasn't verified. Then I asked about the carb and was told builder dropped jets to solve rich idle, I'm thinking uhoh not good. At this time Im trying to find jets, indexing washers for plugs etc. then I happen to see the head gasket leak . 2 laps on it my buddy isn't a mechanic he just drives and paid a bunch to get this engine done I'm thinking he paid the wrong guy.

mag2555
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:31 am

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by mag2555 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:43 am

That all sucks especially that the guy was trying to solve a rich idle issue by means of the main Jets which proves little to no knowledge of the 3 main circuits of the Carb!

BillK
Pro
Pro
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Beautiful Southern Maryland
Contact:

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by BillK » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:23 am

Was this engine run on a dyno before putting it in the car ?
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

cuisinartvette
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1650
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:39 pm
Location: Valencia Ca

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:35 am

I bet he "got a deal" too

racinnut15xm
Pro
Pro
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by racinnut15xm » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:04 am

barnym17 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:57 am
Buddy asked me to go with him for his first night out Saturday, sat in stands to watch handling during hotlaps the engine ine question is a 387 sbc with rhs heads, roller and was told 14 to 1 squeeze.As I set there watching the green drops I hear and engine hunting ducks "missing and popping badly"sure enough its him. I head to the pits check the collectors sure enough bone white so pull #1 plug to confirm lean condition as im looking at the plug I see the thread on the end has been hit"flattened " right now I'm pretty sure piston to plug clearance wasn't verified. Then I asked about the carb and was told builder dropped jets to solve rich idle, I'm thinking uhoh not good. At this time Im trying to find jets, indexing washers for plugs etc. then I happen to see the head gasket leak . 2 laps on it my buddy isn't a mechanic he just drives and paid a bunch to get this engine done I'm thinking he paid the wrong guy.
Maybe you should of been a better buddy and done it for him to start with :lol:

GRTfast
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 2317
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:26 am

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by GRTfast » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:27 am

barnym17 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:57 am
Buddy asked me to go with him for his first night out Saturday, sat in stands to watch handling during hotlaps the engine ine question is a 387 sbc with rhs heads, roller and was told 14 to 1 squeeze.As I set there watching the green drops I hear and engine hunting ducks "missing and popping badly"sure enough its him. I head to the pits check the collectors sure enough bone white so pull #1 plug to confirm lean condition as im looking at the plug I see the thread on the end has been hit"flattened " right now I'm pretty sure piston to plug clearance wasn't verified. Then I asked about the carb and was told builder dropped jets to solve rich idle, I'm thinking uhoh not good. At this time Im trying to find jets, indexing washers for plugs etc. then I happen to see the head gasket leak . 2 laps on it my buddy isn't a mechanic he just drives and paid a bunch to get this engine done I'm thinking he paid the wrong guy.
That sucks, I saw similar issues throughout my years in karting. People charging big $$ and doing shoddy work. It sucks too, because most customers don't know the difference until it doesn't work on the track.

Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by Walter R. Malik » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:30 am

I hear these kind of stories all the time and it is never a good scenario...
Everybody can be engine builder ... just ask them.

Some people need to realize, including potential customers who just have to have it their way,
that it is not simply assembling parts; (even when they fit).
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

dfarr67
Pro
Pro
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by dfarr67 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:48 am

I always try to do my due diligence- but it doesn't seem to matter.

engineczar
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1411
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:47 am
Location: Dubois, Wy.

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by engineczar » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:59 am

I have to say that over the years I acquired a lot of customers who were tired of getting screwed over. While everyone is capable of making a mistake there's a big difference between a mistake and a pattern.

rebelrouser
Expert
Expert
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by rebelrouser » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:24 am

I just build a few engines a year, I do most of my own head work, and got a good shop to do my other machine work. And yes I have seen a lot of so called professional engine shops turn out some real duds. I had a buddy bought a new engine 565 BB chevy still in the packing crate, it felt funny when rolling over, it closed the gaps on three plugs just rolling it over, so we decided to pulled it apart and the angle of the valve pockets in the pistons did not match the angle of the valves, .120 clearance on one side .030 on the other side. Had another guy bring a Hemi to me, just come from a shop off the dyno, it had three little dents in the oil pan from the inside, the other shop said not to worry. Pulled the pan and one of the main nuts had not been torqued, in ran around the engine chipped a piston skirt, cam lobe and the lifter bore. I just finished a 400 mopar and the guy purchased a kit from Edelbrock heads, cam, intake and carb. So cam is .500 lift flat tappet roller, springs were set at 150 lbs, I had to cut the seat pockets to get the installed height right, then degreed the camshaft and not only was it not right, it wasn't even a grind Edelbrock had in their catalog. I could tell stories for hours.

RevTheory
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 5207
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:45 am

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:33 am

engineczar wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:59 am
I have to say that over the years I acquired a lot of customers who were tired of getting screwed over. While everyone is capable of making a mistake there's a big difference between a mistake and a pattern.
Well said. *insert thumbs-up emoji here*

PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5798
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by PackardV8 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:52 am

We turn down more work than we accept, and usually everyone who's shopping price, because we only know one way to build. A budget racer wanted to do his own assembly, so against our better judgement, we quoted just block machine work. The local large rebuilder was $60 less, so he went with them. It went through their production line, got cleaned, bored, honed and surfaced. When he got his block back, they told him, "BTW, it needs the thrust resurfaced, but it wasn't on the work order and now we don't have time to bother with it." He was a more than a bit embarrassed, but still came back, asking my guy to cut the thrust. Guess what? We don't have time for him either. So now he's saved $60 getting his block work almost done and can't use it.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering

CGT
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by CGT » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:28 pm

Its also hard to say who else has been dicking with an engine after the original, reputable builder built the engine... and yet it may still have that original builders name on the valve covers etc.

But...."Billy Ed" has been in there a couple times since, before he finally realized he was in over his head but doesn't mention that to the next guy. Engine builder "B" tears it down and assesses...."Wow I thought "so and so" did much nicer work than this....." Billy Ed, you sure you didn't dick with this in between there and here?" and Billy Ed's answer may be "no" :lol: And conclusions get drawn from that.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

GARY C
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 5479
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:40 pm

I got somewhat burned on my first build but that was partly my fault by going to a guy that was starting his own shop and although capable of building his good prices and promise of fast turn around led him to half ass shit to get it out the door.
This is why I learned to do as much of my own work as possible then if there is a problem it's on me.

I sell fuel to dirt track racers that don't own a timing light and wouldn't know how to use it if the did or can't change jets on a holley carb and when I tried to show them they didn't even want to learn... Not sure how these guys even race.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

GARY C
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 5479
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: Venting about so called "builders"

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:46 pm

CGT wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:28 pm
Its also hard to say who else has been dicking with an engine after the original, reputable builder built the engine... and yet it may still have that original builders name on the valve covers etc.

But...."Billy Ed" has been in there a couple times since, before he finally realized he was in over his head but doesn't mention that to the next guy. Engine builder "B" tears it down and assesses...."Wow I thought "so and so" did much nicer work than this....." Billy Ed, you sure you didn't dick with this in between there and here?" and Billy Ed's answer may be "no" :lol: And conclusions get drawn from that.
Yeah the shop I use got a bad name some years back due to the shop foreman deciding to branch out on his own and either stated slacking on his work or purposely sabotaging the shops name to get the customers for himself.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

Post Reply