General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track
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ClassAct wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:09 am
GARY C wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:32 pm
ClassAct wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:15 pm
It depends on the engine but it's not hard to find 10-15 HP with a good oil. There are more good oils now than ever before. I don't consider Amsoil one of them. Even if you find 5 HP, where did it come from? It has to come from reduced friction. Anyone testing oils of different grades is a fool.
I don't know if it's legal to bet here but if it is I will give you $1000.00 dollars if you can prove 10-15 horse power on oil alone with the average performance build!
I have seen the claims and I have changed oil on the dyno and 0 to .5 would be more likely the power gain seen on average.
DV and others claim 5 hp from Oil Extreme... So where did it come from?
It will cost you more than 1k to test oil. The top 5 oils are less than 2 HP apart. The other oils there is plenty to be found. I've seen some horrible test methods where a junk oil is very close to the test oil because the test was improperly conducted.
You see power gains where you have bushed rockers rather than needle bearings (there is still power there) and things like triple springs will find HP with good oils. You also see much longer valve spring life. But no one likes to talk about that.
So gather up your cash and do your own testing. It's not cheap. Or just keep running Walmart shit and tell us how good it is.
And I don't know what DV is peddling. If it's an additive I won't even test it.
Why do you think I was willing to put money on the line to challenge your claim?
You have made 2 statements in this thread alone of what you don't know that you want even look at because you have already drawn a conclusion... So should anyone trust what you say about oil testing?
Why do you assume I have ever run walmart oil? I didn't even know they made oil, do they make oil?
When did I say Walmart oil was good... It seems we have been through the "you like to put words in people mouth" discussion before!
BTW, your opening line here of 2 hp is closer to what the best oil tests have shown (DV/Driven/UPM/BND/Mobil1 with oil extreme) 2 hp would be on the high side for average power gain and what were they tested against?
What oil would you have to use to loose 10 to 15 hp?
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!
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Never had an oil related failure in anything I've owned...street or race.
Ran a 25 feature years ago with a broken oil pump laying in the oil pan. Broken gauge. Amsoil...never hurt anything.
Got a friend who runs Wally World oil in his dirt car. Cheap bastard like me. Seems to work.
I run what ever is on the shelf in my 285k Ram...no issues.
Had the best luck with Delvac and Lucas additive in my last 3406 Cat....2,000,000 miles before I did a major
Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Member Class of 2019
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Politics, religion, oil... three subjects I've learned to never bring up in conversation anymore.
One big happy PITA to everyone who knows me!
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There's so much misinformation on oil out there it's simply stupid. What most aren't talking about is a lot of the "cheap" oils such as Wally World oil are just rebranded oils like Valvoline! Same oil, same standards, same quality, different bottle....
Now, getting 10-15 hp from an oil change? Not likely.....Unless you're running 140w and switch to 10w! If there's that much friction inside your engine and a simple oil change makes that much difference, SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!
In regards to Amsoil, I'm gonna call bs on that as well. NOT BECAUSE I'M A DEALER.... I run it in all my stuff exclusively, including my 1510 hp dragster engine...(yes, I have the dyno sheet to prove it). It gets Amsoil 15w50 racing oil. As to my daily drivers, my car runs 0w20 per factory specs and my truck gets 15w40 (diesel). One thing I can say, is that in BOTH of my vehicles, I have gotten a noticeable increase in fuel mileage running Amsoil over other oils. In my truck, I average .5-1.5 mpg increase depending on city or highway driving when running amsoil. I drive it a lot and track my fuel and mileage very carefully. I've done 4 oil changes with different oils before and my economy dropped in EVERY CASE. Went back to Amsoil and economy came back. Same as in my car. Now, is there any difference in power? I can't tell a thing except when I go to the pump. And given that I drive both an average of over 2000 miles a month, I'll take what I can get.
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream rear engine dragster
Speed kills but it's better than going slow!
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
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I would think getting better mileage with just a change of oil brands (same viscosity) has to be due to better efficiency. Doesn’t better efficiency = more HP? Or is it less fuel needed to make the same HP?
On a 1000HP engine gaining 10-15HP from a simple oil change using the same viscosity is less than a 2% gain and believable in that scenario. Getting that much HP on a 400HP engine would be a different story. I also think one brands 10W30 can be a slightly different viscosity than another brands 10W30 and could account for a slight difference in HP.
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I work for farmers. Long ago we settled on running 1 engine oil in everything from weedeaters to diesel tractors. It just happens to be 15/40 Shell Rottela HD Diesel oil. Probably better than some maybe worse than others. In the 30 years we've used it we've never experienced a oil related engine failure.
Having said that, a few years ago a guy drove in the yard in a Justice Bros. truck. I really didn't feel like suffering through a long sales pitch so I handed him to the bosses son. The bosses son had recently switched to John Deere brand oil in his JD equipment as they offered an extended warranty if you used their oil.
The sales guy pulls out one of those (oil testing clear plastic gear train machines) they put some JD oil in it and it makes a couple revolutions and stalls out. He then cleans it up and puts some Justice Bros oil in it and it makes a couple more revolutions than the JD oil. I m watching all this from across the shop. I yell over, try some of our Rotella in it. The sales guy dumps some of our Rottela in it and the machine just keeps running and running. He didn't sell much that day.
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Since friction reduction and thus more net torque would be the expected direct benefit of the oils under discussion, RPM would be a big factor. A 5 lb-ft. friction reduction at 10,000 RPM would be almost 10 HP, but at 5,000 would be half that.
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.
Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
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Most high grade oils do a good job for friction reduction . Find a oil package that works with your ring/hone package and you will find as much or more than friction reduction.
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For performance engines utilizing Hydraulic Roller Cams, heavier weight (20w50) oil has shown Horsepower improvements in numerous tests. Joe Sherman proved this multiple times.
I just posted this to stir the pot a little
73 Omega, 468 BBO, 4.185 ICON Pistons,RR/Wenzler Heads with HS 1.7 rockers and PAC 1220X Springs,J&S 5-main Halo with Billet Caps, .590I .580E 242I 256E HR Cam, 1000hp Carb,2" x 3 1/2" headers,Coan 2900rpm Conv.,TH400,3.73 12 bolt,11.32/118