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D0OE intake ports

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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travis
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by travis » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:43 pm

I did some measuring on the ports tonight. Average port length was 4.875”, port volume was 148cc. As purchased the ports are 145cc, and bone stock they should be around 140cc.

Average CSA calculated to 1.85”, so with the big throat and relatively big pinch, that means a pretty significant choke in the ssr area. I guess that also explains the port stalling at .500” lift and peaking at only 207 cfm. I’ll try to make some measurements of the ssr apex area tomorrow.

So...since the inner wall area is known to be thin, should I try to widen it on the outer wall side? Should I try raising the roof area of the ssr a bit? I’ll lower the floor a hair more, but I’m afraid to go much further there.

I need to figure out how to put the toothpaste back in the tube lol or plan on another set of heads.

Out of curiosity, what does too big of a throat/lowered air speed at the seat do to the power curve?

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by GARY C » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:07 am

travis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:31 pm
GARY C wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:40 pm

I was thinking the SSR was near 400? I would have to see if we took notes and recalculate, it was about 4 am by then.

I see where it could be addressed I just don't know what material there is to play with.
I don’t think we took any notes on air speed, but I think we calculated about 362 fps at the apex of the short turn on the inner wall side (about 9” iirc), and was seeing almost 30% higher on the outer wall side, which has got to be around 400 fps. Then that little cut you did there at the fastest part picked up a few cfm above .500” and made the speed pretty much even all across the apex/floor area.
Yes I wasn't sure all the numbers we recorded but then again I did get hit with a falling tree branch during the storm... BTW you didn't mention that I was bleeding. :)
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by travis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:21 am

GARY C wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:07 am
travis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:31 pm
GARY C wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:40 pm

I was thinking the SSR was near 400? I would have to see if we took notes and recalculate, it was about 4 am by then.

I see where it could be addressed I just don't know what material there is to play with.
I don’t think we took any notes on air speed, but I think we calculated about 362 fps at the apex of the short turn on the inner wall side (about 9” iirc), and was seeing almost 30% higher on the outer wall side, which has got to be around 400 fps. Then that little cut you did there at the fastest part picked up a few cfm above .500” and made the speed pretty much even all across the apex/floor area.
Yes I wasn't sure all the numbers we recorded but then again I did get hit with a falling tree branch during the storm... BTW you didn't mention that I was bleeding. :)
I guess I missed that :shock: Granted by that point I had already been up for over 24 hours...

Hopefully I didn't rut up your yard...I couldn't see out of the wife's big boat with the tinted windows :mrgreen:

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by GARY C » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:42 am

travis wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:21 am
GARY C wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:07 am
travis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:31 pm


I don’t think we took any notes on air speed, but I think we calculated about 362 fps at the apex of the short turn on the inner wall side (about 9” iirc), and was seeing almost 30% higher on the outer wall side, which has got to be around 400 fps. Then that little cut you did there at the fastest part picked up a few cfm above .500” and made the speed pretty much even all across the apex/floor area.
Yes I wasn't sure all the numbers we recorded but then again I did get hit with a falling tree branch during the storm... BTW you didn't mention that I was bleeding. :)
I guess I missed that :shock: Granted by that point I had already been up for over 24 hours...

Hopefully I didn't rut up your yard...I couldn't see out of the wife's big boat with the tinted windows :mrgreen:
It's all good, I forgot about the tree branch until I noticed the scratches on my forehead the next morning. :)
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by Carnut1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:04 am

You guys are becoming hardcore. Maybe we need to start a support group?
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PRH
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by PRH » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:38 am

Out of curiosity, what does too big of a throat/lowered air speed at the seat do to the power curve?
If you had to guess what affect that would have...... what would you say?

On the other hand, it doesn’t sound like you’ve really taken much material out if they’re only 8cc larger than as cast.
Of course...... it also sounds like the first 5cc came out of somewhere maybe it shouldn’t have.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by travis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:08 pm

PRH wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:38 am

If you had to guess what affect that would have...... what would you say?

On the other hand, it doesn’t sound like you’ve really taken much material out if they’re only 8cc larger than as cast.
Of course...... it also sounds like the first 5cc came out of somewhere maybe it shouldn’t have.
I honestly don’t know. For some reason when I try to visualize what’s going on there, I could see it making the cam act quite a bit smaller, by delaying meaningful flow. Maybe make the cam act like it is on a wider (or much wider) lsa? But then limiting mid range power because the port gets a late start at filling the cylinder?

I actually did run these heads for a few days about 5-6 years ago on a pretty much bone stock 351w in my ‘83 F150. They actually felt quite a bit stronger across the board than the E7’s that eventually got put on there.

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by travis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 pm

Carnut1 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:04 am
You guys are becoming hardcore. Maybe we need to start a support group?
Gary is already hardcore...I’m a total newb at this :mrgreen:

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by Carnut1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:36 pm

Warning: this is contagious!
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by mag2555 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:50 am

Ok I have most of the weekend free so I figured I woukd jump in on the SB Ford porting party here, lol!

I dug out my rusty E7TE castings , cleaned them up a tad and did freshen up valve job so that a flow test would be valid.

First some Intake port check out measurements.

What might be called the Throat in other heads Intake ports is deceiving on these heads!

It seams like the Throat is 1.580" or 88% , but it tapers off to far far less due to the cutter that Ford uses for its bowl .

The roof width at the start of the valve bowl is narrower then the width of the floor , and the height is less then the width dimension of the floor, so this sets up a need to start off your porting work in a certain way.

The average bowl size is much closer to a combination of 1.430" in width and 1.520" in top to bottom , see my photo with a 1.456" bowl template with a flat side of the template at 94% of that 1.456" size.

The window area at the crown of the short turn is as follows.
Width on roof= 1.230"
Width on floor= 1.278"
Height= 1.220"
This averages out to 1.540" sq inches.

Intake flange dimensions are.
Height = 1.880"
The width is 3 different sizes, with the widest being at middle flange height which when averaging out the 3 comes to .866", or about 1.60 sq inches.

Here's my stock flow numbers on a 4" Bore @ 28"
.050" 28.7
.100" 54
.200" 111
.300" 141
.400" 147.2
.450" 149
.500" 150

Next up I reworked the valve job as seen in the photo so that the 45 degree seat came down from over.100" to .060" by means of added a 60 degree bottom cut.
This picked up the flow at .300" lift from 141 cfm to 147 cfm and dropped off the flow at .200" lift by 3 cfm so I will not waste time by posting up the whole flow test results.

Next up I started to cut larger throat with a seat cutter set to 1.530".
I cut down into the bowl with this until it cut .390" deep ( see photo) then I blended this lip off with a ball cutter until I got to the rear of the valve guide where I started to blend it in full as I came around to the right side wall where I when down to get some of that pinch in cut out that the port has between the side of the valve guide and that center of cylinder port wall. ( see photo.

I also very lightly took a cut on the left side wall as can be seen in the photo.

Here's the flow test for that work done.
.050" 27
.100" 55
.200" 107.3
.300" 146.7
.400" 153
.450" 154
.500" 155.2
.550" 156

Today I will get atleast one more rework of the Intake port done to post up and a flow test of a stock Exh port done to post up in the morning.
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by Carnut1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:30 am

Airflow RBJ racing vs DV & CS.jpg
I will be interested in what you can do with them Mag. This is DV and Charlie E7's and RBJ E7's flowed on DV's bench. These were also dynoed on the same 306 short block.
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by travis » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:17 am

Mag2555...I hope you have a LOT of free time lol I would hate to guess how much time Charlie or anybody else put into a set of E7’s to make them good.

I do have an idea I want to try where I think a set of lightly worked E7’s could shine on a 351. I’ve been on the hunt for a 2.73 rear end, although a 3.08 with a taller rear tire would work too. Now just to find the free time...

Keep us posted. I’m going to try to work on these D0’s a little more today while it’s not 120+ in my garage.

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by Carnut1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:28 am

They will never be "good". They can make good street torque due to high air speed and tight port. Fully ported E7's are only about 150cc intake volume.
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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by mag2555 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:29 am

I will give it a shot Charlie!

Charlie refresh my memory here, what size valves accompanied that flow test you posted up?

So I did a bit more porting work on Sunday afternoon, but first I did more evaluation on the port.

It seams that a Throat of 1.646" may be able to be used , and as such a 1.850" valve would have a 89% Throat size , or a 1.900" valve would have very close to a 87% Throat.

The 1.900" valve would allow the use of a great seat profile and is a test valve size I have on hand so this will be used at some point.

The short turn height used in these intake ports has no extra as cast height and is layed back pretty good alread, so in terms of reworking things the meat in the short turn may be the limit as what high lift flow can be picked up and not the Throat size, we'll see I guess?
In these next flow test results the added rework I did was as follows.

The guide was Boat tailed.
The roof width was taken to 1.325" up from 1.244"
I raised the roof above the crown of the short turn from 1.220" to 1.278"
This wa done on the the non push rod side of the roof and then the roof and that port wall where blended in.
You can see in the photo of the roof with the solder layed on it where I ground in this dip.

Note that all of the port is still ruff ported and not fully belended in yet, and I have not touched the short turn at all.

Note how the rework now has the 1.456" template sitting right on the top of the guide and the roof width on the right side port wall is now allowing the template to go back in the runner far enough to allow its screw handle to touch the short turn.

Stock 1.780" valve
The second column is the flow change from stock.
.050" = 26.6 -2.1
.100". 54.4 +.4
.200". 110.6 -.4
.300". 154 +13
.400". 167.2 +20
.450". 170. +21
.500". 171 +21
.550". 172. +22
.600". 173 +22

This makes for a max flow gain of 14.5% for 40 minutes of work.
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Last edited by mag2555 on Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: D0OE intake ports

Post by Carnut1 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:36 am

mag2555 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:29 am
I will give it a shot Charlie!

Charlie refresh my memory here, what size valves accompanied that flow test you posted up?

So I did a bit more porting work on Sunday afternoon, but first I did more evaluation on the port.

It seams that a Throat of 1.646" may be able to be used , and as such a 1.850" valve would have a 89% Throat size , or a 1.900" valve would have very close to a 87% Throat.

The 1.900" valve would allow the use of a great seat profile and is a test valve size I have on hand so this will be used at some point.

The short turn height used in these intake ports has no extra as cast height and is layed back pretty good alread, so in terms of reworking things the meat in the short turn may be the limit as what high lift flow can be picked up and not the Throat size, we'll see I guess?
In these next flow test results the added rework I did was as follows.

The guide was Boat tailed.
The width was taken to 1.325" up from 1.244"
I raised the roof above the crown of the short turn from 1.220" to 1.278"
This wa done on the the non push rod side of the roof and then the roof and that port wall where blended in.
You can see in the photo of the roof with the solder layed on it where I ground in this dip.

Note that all of the port is still ruff ported and not fully belended in yet, and I have not touched the short turn at all.

Note how the rework now has the 1.456" template sitting right on the top of the guide and the roof width on the right side port wall is now allowing the template to go back in the runner far enough to allow its screw handle to touch the short turn.

Stock 1.780" valve
Flow change from stock
.050" = 26.6 -2.1
.100". 54.4 +.4
.200". 110.6 -.4
.300". 154 +13
.400". 167.2 +20
.450". 170. +21
.500". 171 +21
.550". 172 +22
.600". 173 +22
DV finalized the valve size at 1.97". Which I feel is a bit big, on the 289's I was actually able to get a bit more flow with a smaller valve 1.85" due to the ssr casting thickness.
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