When are you switching to synthetic?

[Pete1]

The GOV did do it. The GOV mandated catalytic converters and the zinc kills them. There isn't one single moron in the government with the brains to pour piss out of a boot, with instructions on the heel and yet they want to tell automakers and everyone how build what they build.

The government IS the problem.

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

You know of course that there ARE other benefits of lead. The same for zinc and phosphorous.

[hoffman900]

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

You know of course that there ARE other benefits of lead. The same for zinc and phosphorous.

There are, but in specialty applications. To be nostalgic for flat tappet camshafts and engines with inefficient combustion characteristics that need enhanced knock resistance seems a bit silly.

[peejay]

The GOV did do it. The GOV mandated catalytic converters and the zinc kills them. There isn't one single moron in the government with the brains to pour piss out of a boot, with instructions on the heel and yet they want to tell automakers and everyone how build what they build.

The government IS the problem.

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

A lot of things are expedient fixes until they get it sorted out. There was a huge push to find higher octane fuels in the 30s and 40s because forced induction meant airplanes were by and large detonation limited as far as power and range were concerned. It was partially a band aid for the still emerging combustion theories but mostly it was a band aid for not having production ready jets yet. We've had 80 years of port and chamber shape refinement and newer technologies like feedback controlled cam timing and multi spray direct injection and, what things do we have today that will be considered to be "band aids" in the future?

[hoffman900]

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

A lot of things are expedient fixes until they get it sorted out. There was a huge push to find higher octane fuels in the 30s and 40s because forced induction meant airplanes were by and large detonation limited as far as power and range were concerned. It was partially a band aid for the still emerging combustion theories but mostly it was a band aid for not having production ready jets yet. We've had 80 years of port and chamber shape refinement and newer technologies like feedback controlled cam timing and multi spray direct injection and, what things do we have today that will be considered to be "band aids" in the future?

See my post above.

I take exception to somehow, something is wrong with the universe that technology has marched on. It was implied by both posters that something is inherently wrong that oil doesn't need as much zinc / phosphorus and lead isn't in mass produced gasoline anymore. They had their time, but I for one, am not holding onto flat tappet camshafts or poor combustion, nor do I blame it for modern society's woes, and certainly I don't blame it on some sort of government conspiracy theory.

[GARY C]

The GOV did do it. The GOV mandated catalytic converters and the zinc kills them. There isn't one single moron in the government with the brains to pour piss out of a boot, with instructions on the heel and yet they want to tell automakers and everyone how build what they build.

The government IS the problem.

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

Never said it was good but only that gov mandated cats pushed out of the market just like zink oils, the difference with the gas is that it was public knowledge as you could by either at the pump for probably a decade after the changes were implemented and then you could buy a lead substitute once tel was completely gone from the pump... unlike the zink oil change that led to no telling how many flat cams and everyone blaming the cam company's for soft cores... consumers paid out the ass and oil manufactured made bank by not disclosing the change to the consumer... Goes back to peoples concern on the Brad Pen thread.

How much pollutant do you think have been pumped into the air for the 3 decades of changes and development to get us to where we are today?

[GARY C]

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

A lot of things are expedient fixes until they get it sorted out. There was a huge push to find higher octane fuels in the 30s and 40s because forced induction meant airplanes were by and large detonation limited as far as power and range were concerned. It was partially a band aid for the still emerging combustion theories but mostly it was a band aid for not having production ready jets yet. We've had 80 years of port and chamber shape refinement and newer technologies like feedback controlled cam timing and multi spray direct injection and, what things do we have today that will be considered to be "band aids" in the future?

See my post above.

I take exception to somehow, something is wrong with the universe that technology has marched on. It was implied by both posters that something is inherently wrong that oil doesn't need as much zinc / phosphorus and lead isn't in mass produced gasoline anymore. They had their time, but I for one, am not holding onto flat tappet camshafts or poor combustion, nor do I blame it for modern society's woes, and certainly I don't blame it on some sort of government conspiracy theory.

It's only a conspiracy if you don't take the time to learn the facts... It's documented history as to what came first and who implemented it!

[hoffman900]

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

Never said it was good but only that gov mandated cats pushed out of the market just like zink oils, the difference with the gas is that it was public knowledge as you could by either at the pump for probably a decade after the changes were implemented and then you could buy a lead substitute one tel was completely gone from the pump... unlike the zink oil change that led to no telling how many flat cams and everyone blaming the cam company's for soft cores... consumers paid out the ass and oil manufactured made bank by not disclosing the change to the consumer... Goes back to peoples concern on the Brad Pen thread.

How much pollutant do you think have been pumped into the air for the 3 decades of changes and development to get us to where we are today?

Using your last statement, then we should have never progressed to internal combustion engines. How do Flinestone cars suffice?

The problem is people tend to draw a line in the sand and stop where they want it to stop in history. Judging by the posts here, I'd peg the average poster here around 60yo, and their engine choices / statements / politics seem right in line with that. Go to the typical race track and the demographics are about the same. Hence their being nostalgic about items that others find silly and elicit a "whyyyy?"

There were soft cams, this is documented by several sources and coincided with cores also being hard to obtain due to bankruptcies and other market forces.

A lot of things are expedient fixes until they get it sorted out. There was a huge push to find higher octane fuels in the 30s and 40s because forced induction meant airplanes were by and large detonation limited as far as power and range were concerned. It was partially a band aid for the still emerging combustion theories but mostly it was a band aid for not having production ready jets yet. We've had 80 years of port and chamber shape refinement and newer technologies like feedback controlled cam timing and multi spray direct injection and, what things do we have today that will be considered to be "band aids" in the future?

See my post above.

I take exception to somehow, something is wrong with the universe that technology has marched on. It was implied by both posters that something is inherently wrong that oil doesn't need as much zinc / phosphorus and lead isn't in mass produced gasoline anymore. They had their time, but I for one, am not holding onto flat tappet camshafts or poor combustion, nor do I blame it for modern society's woes, and certainly I don't blame it on some sort of government conspiracy theory.

It's only a conspiracy if you don't take the time to learn the facts... It's documented history as to what came first and who implemented it!

Sorry, I misplaced my tinfoil hat.

[GARY C]

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

Never said it was good but only that gov mandated cats pushed out of the market just like zink oils, the difference with the gas is that it was public knowledge as you could by either at the pump for probably a decade after the changes were implemented and then you could buy a lead substitute one tel was completely gone from the pump... unlike the zink oil change that led to no telling how many flat cams and everyone blaming the cam company's for soft cores... consumers paid out the ass and oil manufactured made bank by not disclosing the change to the consumer... Goes back to peoples concern on the Brad Pen thread.

How much pollutant do you think have been pumped into the air for the 3 decades of changes and development to get us to where we are today?

Using your last statement, then we should have never progressed to internal combustion engines. How do Flinestone cars suffice?

The problem is people tend to draw a line in the sand and stop where they want it to stop in history. Judging by the posts here, I'd peg the average poster here around 60yo, and their engine choices / statements / politics seem right in line with that. Go to the typical race track and the demographics are about the same. Hence their being nostalgic about items that others find silly and elicit a "whyyyy?"

There were soft cams, this is documented by several sources and coincided with cores also being hard to obtain due to bankruptcies and other market forces.

See my post above.

I take exception to somehow, something is wrong with the universe that technology has marched on. It was implied by both posters that something is inherently wrong that oil doesn't need as much zinc / phosphorus and lead isn't in mass produced gasoline anymore. They had their time, but I for one, am not holding onto flat tappet camshafts or poor combustion, nor do I blame it for modern society's woes, and certainly I don't blame it on some sort of government conspiracy theory.

It's only a conspiracy if you don't take the time to learn the facts... It's documented history as to what came first and who implemented it!

Sorry, I misplaced my tinfoil hat.

Your assumptions are nothing short of a conspiracy theory... And an incorrect one at that!

[ClassAct]

"The Gov" didn't do jack. The automakers went to the API and said, you know, we haven't made solid lifter engines since the 80s or 90s, we don't need these additives in the oil, and if you make a new spec that doesn't require so many high pressure additives, we can meet long-term emissions targets with smaller, cheaper converters.

The GOV did do it. The GOV mandated catalytic converters and the zinc kills them. There isn't one single moron in the government with the brains to pour piss out of a boot, with instructions on the heel and yet they want to tell automakers and everyone how build what they build.

The government IS the problem.

It sure is nice to sit in traffic and not have a migraine from cars smelling like gasoline. I think most of the population would agree.

Also, as pointed out, the automakers drove the change. Also, why would an oil company go through the expense of putting something in their product that isn't needed. That's how capitalism works #USA. I know that doesn't fit your narrative, but probably not much does.


Can someone explain to me why conventional oil is better for breaking in than synthetic? Wondering what everyone's thought process is here.

Seems to me the additive package matters a lot more than the base stock source, and with synthetic having better thermal and shear stability, seems the better choice considering the heat put off by an engine wearing in.

It's sad to see intelligent people so ignorant of the truth. What a joke. I'm done with this thread. If I wanted to deal with Marxists I join a gun forum.

[digger]

Same thing with TEL, now we have millions of water vapor makers on the streets and we are going to die by the second tuesday of next week

Uh, lead has A LOT of documented and verified public health effects. No doubt some are suffering from it here!

Go figure the manufacturers have figured out to mass produce engines with compression ratios in excess of 12.5:1 + on unleaded 93 octane gasoline. Lead seems like a band aide in hindsight.

A lot of things are expedient fixes until they get it sorted out. There was a huge push to find higher octane fuels in the 30s and 40s because forced induction meant airplanes were by and large detonation limited as far as power and range were concerned. It was partially a band aid for the still emerging combustion theories but mostly it was a band aid for not having production ready jets yet. We've had 80 years of port and chamber shape refinement and newer technologies like feedback controlled cam timing and multi spray direct injection and, what things do we have today that will be considered to be "band aids" in the future?

The ICE is a bandaid

[MadBill]

..
The ICE is a bandaid

Why does everyone say that like a bandaid is a bad thing? I'm sporting a 2" square one right now that is all that remains of the 10" specimen that was protecting an abdominal incision incurred during a recent internal plumbing repair..

[GARY C]

..
The ICE is a bandaid

Why does everyone say that like a bandaid is a bad thing? I'm sporting a 2" square one right now that is all that remains of the 10" specimen that was protecting an abdominal incision incurred during a recent internal plumbing repair..

It's a cover for a cut you got when you could not actually deal with the subject at hand.

[hoffman900]

..
The ICE is a bandaid

Why does everyone say that like a bandaid is a bad thing? I'm sporting a 2" square one right now that is all that remains of the 10" specimen that was protecting an abdominal incision incurred during a recent internal plumbing repair..

It's a cover for a cut you got when you could not actually deal with the subject at hand.

You seemed to have glossed over my question of what is the technical basis for conventional vs. synthetic for break in. Looking for more than “everyone else does it”.

[GRTfast]

The ICE is a bandaid

Best post in the thread.

[digger]

Why does everyone say that like a bandaid is a bad thing? I'm sporting a 2" square one right now that is all that remains of the 10" specimen that was protecting an abdominal incision incurred during a recent internal plumbing repair..

It's a cover for a cut you got when you could not actually deal with the subject at hand.

You seemed to have glossed over my question of what is the technical basis for conventional vs. synthetic for break in. Looking for more than “everyone else does it”.

It doesn't work as well so it's controlled wear