Ring Seal

[steve316]

years ago tech rep told no oil on rings & if I couldn't do that a light coat of wd40 . has worked for me for more years than I want to say.

[ProPower engines]

Thanks guys.

I use total seal rings all the time and the two things they have always stressed when asked is
1 the use of their Quick Seat should always be used. Clean bores and install dry rings a dab of lube on the skirt if
you feel you must but coated skirts don't really need it when using QS.

Option 2 is a light coat of WD040 or CRC spray lube and a dab of skirt lube. Install pistons with rings dry.

Been doing it that way on every engine regardless of TS ring design or piston type for 30+ YEARS no problem ever
But,
There is always 1 that learned dunk it in oil and slam it home is the only way anyone ever does it AND THEY CAN'T BE
RIGHT TILL THEY HEAR IT FROM ANY OF THE GUYS AT TS.

[PackardV8]

Similar but different, my machinist swears when he uses iron rings in first and second grooves, there's always witness traces of scratches on the bore. When he uses a moly top and an iron second, never a scratch.

Does anyone use chrome rings these days? Back before good honing science, they were occasionally a bitch to get them to seal up. With today's diamond hones, not so much. FWIW, some years back, we tore down a factory Mercedes V8 which had chrome rings in all three positions on silicon aluminum bores and after more than 100kmi, one cylinder had never seated.

[Dave Koehler]

Dave this is great experiential knowledge- thanks! By non detergent is it just regular old non detergent 30 wt oil or is do you use a race type oil??
And BTW — where did u learn it???
Thanks Jason

The scenario: After many, many, many bore/ hone jobs I get someone that can't make a moly ring DD seal.
I have to suspect that they used or did something "special" in the building process but I don't say anything about that.
Seriously, this is a slam dunk, time tested process after all.

Where the idea came from I do not know.
Either it was passed down to me by an OG or it was one of those Hail Mary, throw it against the wall and see if it sticks idea.
Either way it worked.
This was a rare thing to occur fortunately.

[engineguyBill]

The most important element of successful ring seal is having the cylinders properly prepared. This means absolutely round and straight (no taper), proper cross hatch (45 degree included angle, plenty of depth to retain some oil on the cylinder wall during operation and plateau hone to remove the sharp peaks), torque plate in place during the honing operation.

The method that I have used successfully for 50+ years is to make sure the bores are absolutely clean (using the white lint-free cloth method), then smearing a light coat of 30W oil onto the cylinder walls and piston skirts (with clean hands) then applying (a slight amount) of oil to the rings/ring grooves - using clean oil in a clean squirt can, after the rings are installed on the pistons. Rings are always installed using ring pliers NEVER "twisting" them onto the pistons. Using this procedure, there will be no need for Quick Seat stuff, nor any other goop.

I too, remember hearing about mechanics, back in the good 'ol days, pouring powdered cleanser such as Ajax, Comet. etc., into the carburetor at fast idle after installing new rings!!! Kind of like pouring sand into the engine, but the idea was to make the cylinder walls abrasive so that they would "wear-in/break-in" the new rings.

[PackardV8]

The most important element of successful ring seal is having the cylinders properly prepared. This means absolutely round and straight (no taper), proper cross hatch (45 degree included angle, plenty of depth to retain some oil on the cylinder wall during operation and plateau hone to remove the sharp peaks), torque plate in place during the honing operation.

Agree; this plus rings are just worlds better today.

Rings are always installed using ring pliers NEVER "twisting" them onto the pistons.

We know guys, ourselves included, who've been hand-installing rings for fifty years with no problems. Today's thinnest rings do require careful handling, but still can be done.

What has changed is installing pistons into the bores with today's thinnest rings. Some tried-and-true techniques and tools just won't git 'er done with those.

[RCJ]

Years ago a friend had an immaculate 69 Camaro.He ask me if I had any trouble getting my dirt car motors to seal up,I replied 'no''.After some discussion my definition of sealing up was,If it made 1 more hp and didn't run out of oil before the end of the race.His definition was,no smoke, clean pipe ,less than a quart in 1000miles.This was back when kieth black hyper pistons had just came out, he had installed them with an extra wide top ring gap.After closing the ring gap back to normal specs all his problems stopped.

[rebelrouser]

The most important element of successful ring seal is having the cylinders properly prepared. This means absolutely round and straight (no taper), proper cross hatch (45 degree included angle, plenty of depth to retain some oil on the cylinder wall during operation and plateau hone to remove the sharp peaks), torque plate in place during the honing operation.

The method that I have used successfully for 50+ years is to make sure the bores are absolutely clean (using the white lint-free cloth method), then smearing a light coat of 30W oil onto the cylinder walls and piston skirts (with clean hands) then applying (a slight amount) of oil to the rings/ring grooves - using clean oil in a clean squirt can, after the rings are installed on the pistons. Rings are always installed using ring pliers NEVER "twisting" them onto the pistons. Using this procedure, there will be no need for Quick Seat stuff, nor any other goop.

I too, remember hearing about mechanics, back in the good 'ol days, pouring powdered cleanser such as Ajax, Comet. etc., into the carburetor at fast idle after installing new rings!!! Kind of like pouring sand into the engine, but the idea was to make the cylinder walls abrasive so that they would "wear-in/break-in" the new rings.

When I went to work at a chevy dealer in 1976, they were having problems with 400 sbc using oil. Factory Reps had us dump borax down the carbs to try and seat the rings. I overhauled several engines after we used the borax. I would never advocate dumping stuff in the engine after seeing what it did to ring grooves and cylinder walls. I think they just put bad rings at the factory, I put regular moly rings and every one I rebuilt, and customers never complained of oil consumption.

[Schurkey]

This was back when kieth black hyper pistons had just came out, he had installed them with an extra wide top ring gap.After closing the ring gap back to normal specs all his problems stopped.

He didn't tear the top of a piston clean off when the ring butted and seized?

[af2]

This was back when kieth black hyper pistons had just came out, he had installed them with an extra wide top ring gap.After closing the ring gap back to normal specs all his problems stopped.

He didn't tear the top of a piston clean off when the ring butted and seized?

He never said what 'normal' specs were..... On a few boats I have went to way over 'spec' and never had oil issues. But I had the rings not Butting and ruining the piston like I did when running at 'spec'..

[GARY C]

Regular old school off the shelf non detergent 30wt.

The shop I use has broken in all of it's engines using this for decades and tells all of us home assembly guys to do the same, it seems to be the closest thing to a full proof method for ring seal.

[PRH]

The method that I have used successfully for 50+ years is to make sure the bores are absolutely clean (using the white lint-free cloth method), then smearing a light coat of 30W oil onto the cylinder walls and piston skirts (with clean hands) then applying (a slight amount) of oil to the rings/ring grooves - using clean oil in a clean squirt can, after the rings are installed on the pistons.

That’s how I’ve always done it......... never an issue.

I’m a big believer in sticking with something that’s working for you......so, I’m not implying that’s the best way to do it......... but it’s always worked for me, and I’ll keep doing it that way until it doesn’t seem to give me satisfactory results anymore.

[Lizardracing]

So if I can’t dunk the rings pistons in oil them install because it’s too much oil, then how do you keep the excessive oil off the walls that’s thrown around from the rods and crank plus windage from the oil drain back?
It seems to me everything in the crank case area is flooded with oil but one isn’t supposed to install rings with oil? What’s the difference here?
Wouldn’t the excessive oil just run off before fire up anyway? Or at least, I can’t final assemble and install one in less than a few days.

[peejay]

So if I can’t dunk the rings pistons in oil them install because it’s too much oil, then how do you keep the excessive oil off the walls that’s thrown around from the rods and crank plus windage from the oil drain back?
It seems to me everything in the crank case area is flooded with oil but one isn’t supposed to install rings with oil? What’s the difference here?
Wouldn’t the excessive oil just run off before fire up anyway? Or at least, I can’t final assemble and install one in less than a few days.

I've never understood that either.

When you do a compression test and put oil in the cylinder to see if it improves, do you then have to pull the cylinder head to wipe all the oil out?

[MadBill]

I think it's a break-in thing...