More budget SBC stuff

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GARY C
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by GARY C »

JodyB wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:05 pm I'm gonna side with 88firebird here. If the usual hotrodder compromised formula of 2800 stall, 6000 shift, and at best a 3.73 gear at 3500lbs, then the best compromised carb intake manifold has not been marketed yet. With some r&d, a 2 4bbl long runner intake targeting the highest average in the 2800-6000 range would CRUSH evey dual plane on the market.
Actually all of that is factored into almost every single intake manifold ever made, especially the SBC, if you look at the math for the 2nd wave at 8000 you find a bolt together single plane SBC head and intake for most race applications. The more you learn about wave tuning the more you start factoring in Cross Section and shape to adjust that usable length to tailor it to your rpm.

Here is a good podcast to listen to from someone who actually builds intakes for a living.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by JodyB »

If i were to "trust" anyone designing intake manifolds, I would start my education studying modern factory efi intake manifolds. Length, cross-section, volume, taper, and math vs reality of hp/tq peaks. I would start my study based on millions of dollars of research and development by oem's that are put into production. I would look at modern v8 intakes and surmise most look like a long runner tunnel ram if unfolded and/or taken as a concept/idea.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by GARY C »

JodyB wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:46 am If i were to "trust" anyone designing intake manifolds, I would start my education studying modern factory efi intake manifolds. Length, cross-section, volume, taper, and math vs reality of hp/tq peaks. I would start my study based on millions of dollars of research and development by oem's that are put into production. I would look at modern v8 intakes and surmise most look like a long runner tunnel ram if unfolded and/or taken as a concept/idea.
You don't have to trust anyone to start your education but if you start your education then you will find out who to trust and why. Personally I would start my education with those who have improved what came from the factory because then you find out what the factory got wrong from a performance stand point.

True, you should study factory EFI and that would be good if you are building an EFI intake, but they don't have to deal with equally distributing the added volume of fuel from a single carb, that is why you can't just make one blanket intake or assume that because one is good for one thing then it must be good for all things.

I would focus also on what the MNF do in racing when they are not constrained by regulation more then I would focus on what they produce for the mass production stuff considering that you will rarely if ever find a performance vehicle running a factory intake.
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cv67
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by cv67 »

like this idea, I dont understand why some recommend garbage TBI heads that take a TON of porting (if they know how(larger valves etc)
LIke doing dentistry through youre azz.
Cheap used american made intake, that import crap from summit has smaller internal runner size than the rest.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by PRH »

“Budget SBC”

I’m def not going to overthink that one.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by JodyB »

Image

1961 mopar 413
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

JodyB wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:07 am Image

1961 mopar 413
Had a funky idea of doing something like this using the TPI manifold base and the runners as a start.
Just for grins.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by JodyB »

Again, GaryC, the proper sbc intake manifold for the average joe hotrodder making the highest average hp/tq in the 2800-6000 range (350-425hp ) is not on the market.
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

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JodyB wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:34 am Again, GaryC, the proper sbc intake manifold for the average joe hotrodder making the highest average hp/tq in the 2800-6000 range (350-425hp ) is not on the market.
I still wanna try this intake

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly- ... gLgafD_BwE
Channel About My diy Projects & Reviews https://www.youtube.com/c/BOOTdiy

I know as much as I can learn and try to keep an open mind to anything!

If I didn't overthink stuff I wouldn't be on speedtalk!
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by GARY C »

JodyB wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:34 am Again, GaryC, the proper sbc intake manifold for the average joe hotrodder making the highest average hp/tq in the 2800-6000 range (350-425hp ) is not on the market.
Then you should prove them wrong, they only have 50 years of R&D development... What would they know that you don't?
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

JodyB wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:34 am Again, GaryC, the proper sbc intake manifold for the average joe hotrodder making the highest average hp/tq in the 2800-6000 range (350-425hp ) is not on the market.
You are way overthinking it...
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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

JodyB wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:34 pm For F-BIRD'88 😁

Image

Image
OMG! Where did you find that picture?!?
That's amazing. Those long-runner enthusiasts are a nutty bunch. ;-)


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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

JodyB wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:05 pm I'm gonna side with 88firebird here. If the usual hotrodder compromised formula of 2800 stall, 6000 shift, and at best a 3.73 gear at 3500lbs, then the best compromised carb intake manifold has not been marketed yet. With some r&d, a 2 4bbl long runner intake targeting the highest average in the 2800-6000 range would CRUSH evey dual plane on the market.
If you drop the carb requirement and the "budget" requirement, the FIRST Fuel Injection Intake other than having TPI-style curved runners comes out well in Pipemax for that 2,800-6,000 RPM range. https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/cb4628 ... 8b402a.jpg

Pipemax says an SBC 350 with 5.7" rods @ 6,000 RPM would need an 18.96" long runner to pickup the 2nd harmonic (First is 19.25" from runner opening to valve on a typical SBC head); should have a plenum runner min area of 2.35"-2.64" (2.4" on the FIRST with it's stock 1.75" ID runner size).

Put an aggressive Mike Jones hyd roller cam on it that keeps seat-to-seat duration to a minimum to keep cylinder pressures up while opening the valve as much as possible for as long as possible, then add a 1 5/8" Tri-Y header and average torque under 6,000 should be VERY nice. (I hope so anyway because that's what I've done except for the TRI-Ys which I hope are in my future...)

But again; that's neither a carb, nor a budget recipe.

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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

NewbVetteGuy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:20 pm
JodyB wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:05 pm I'm gonna side with 88firebird here. If the usual hotrodder compromised formula of 2800 stall, 6000 shift, and at best a 3.73 gear at 3500lbs, then the best compromised carb intake manifold has not been marketed yet. With some r&d, a 2 4bbl long runner intake targeting the highest average in the 2800-6000 range would CRUSH evey dual plane on the market.
If you drop the carb requirement and the "budget" requirement, the FIRST Fuel Injection Intake other than having TPI-style curved runners comes out well in Pipemax for that 2,800-6,000 RPM range. https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/cb4628 ... 8b402a.jpg

Pipemax says an SBC 350 with 5.7" rods @ 6,000 RPM would need an 18.96" long runner to pickup the 2nd harmonic (First is 19.25" from runner opening to valve on a typical SBC head); should have a plenum runner min area of 2.35"-2.64" (2.4" on the FIRST with it's stock 1.75" ID runner size).

Put an aggressive Mike Jones hyd roller cam on it that keeps seat-to-seat duration to a minimum to keep cylinder pressures up while opening the valve as much as possible for as long as possible, then add a 1 5/8" Tri-Y header and average torque under 6,000 should be VERY nice. (I hope so anyway because that's what I've done except for the TRI-Ys which I hope are in my future...)

But again; that's neither a carb, nor a budget recipe.

Adam
I think I agree with this! The engine I have in the IROC is alot like this engine. Except it has a mini-ram on it. 230/236 TPI cam

I think it's a beast to the 1-2.. 2-3 is a little soft, but I'm fixing that! :)

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Re: More budget SBC stuff

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:38 pm I think I agree with this! The engine I have in the IROC is alot like this engine. Except it has a mini-ram on it. 230/236 TPI cam

I think it's a beast to the 1-2.. 2-3 is a little soft, but I'm fixing that! :)

Somehow I knew before I clicked on that video it was going to have over 6,000RPM shift points given that it's yours Chad and the mini-ram! lol!
1-2 @ 6,750ish -what's the seat-to-seat on the cam? 290ish?

Love seeing that thing wind through the RPM that quickly.

My dad had a $105,000, white 3rd Gen Camaro when I was growing up (87 Iroc).
(The cocaine that the previous owner had hidden in the floor and door panels were $100k of that value, but I'm going to count it...) :D

After he sold it on, some cops came to the house and started asking questions, "Were you the previous owner of this car?" "Yep." "What would you say if we told you that we found $100k worth of cocaine packed under the carpeting and in the doors?" "I'd say I sold it WAY too cheap!" -LMAO.

The guy my dad sold it to had to replace the heater core when it started leaking and peeled back the carpeting and then called the cops.


Adam
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