Pro Stock What If - Carb/EFI

[cgarb]

Don't worry, they will still have a place to race. NHRA will give them their own classification to run in Comp Eliminator just like they did with Pro Stock Truck...which class I did like by the way. I liked hearing them small motors crank up above 10K. It is not the current trend though. Blowers and Turbo's are what the spectators want to see in todays world.

[Ladderbar]

Might be off topic a bit, but look at the old pics of Pro Stock every make of car was entered. I remember sitting in the stands watching 35-40 or more cars trying to make the field. Old school maybe, but that was racing.

[lefty o]

Might be off topic a bit, but look at the old pics of Pro Stock every make of car was entered. I remember sitting in the stands watching 35-40 or more cars trying to make the field. Old school maybe, but that was racing.

yup, pretty much every make, and multiple models from many of the brands. IMO pro stock aint pro stock without a hood scoop.

[ClassAct]

You can't put the genie back in the bottle, but what if NHRA had allowed carbs and EFI to go head to head w/no restrictions to either? Did they miss a nice opportunity here?

IMHO; spectator interest would have been high (hood scoop vs no scoop would have been fun). It would have brought out the best of both camps in the technical side of our industry and made for some good racing.

I spent A LOT of time at NHRA tracks during 2011-2016, and I saw the grand stands empty out whenever TF cars were done.

EFI and flat hoods absolutely positively did not cause loss of interest in Pro Stock with casual fans. That interest was lost well before the changes.

PS - NHRA asked PS teams for their input on what to do with the class (based on lower car counts & lack of fan interest). No feedback was given.

EFI didn't fix it either. Fuel is THE show. Always has been. 65% of the fans in the stands at a National event are there for fuel cars, and nothing else. A great percentage of those fans couldn't lift the hood off a Pro Stock car, or can tell carbs from EFI if they did manage to get the hood off.

[GARY C]

You can't put the genie back in the bottle, but what if NHRA had allowed carbs and EFI to go head to head w/no restrictions to either? Did they miss a nice opportunity here?

IMHO; spectator interest would have been high (hood scoop vs no scoop would have been fun). It would have brought out the best of both camps in the technical side of our industry and made for some good racing.

I spent A LOT of time at NHRA tracks during 2011-2016, and I saw the grand stands empty out whenever TF cars were done.

EFI and flat hoods absolutely positively did not cause loss of interest in Pro Stock with casual fans. That interest was lost well before the changes.

PS - NHRA asked PS teams for their input on what to do with the class (based on lower car counts & lack of fan interest). No feedback was given.

EFI didn't fix it either. Fuel is THE show. Always has been. 65% of the fans in the stands at a National event are there for fuel cars, and nothing else. A great percentage of those fans couldn't lift the hood off a Pro Stock car, or can tell carbs from EFI if they did manage to get the hood off.

Most of the fans now days at NASCAR and NHRA are "Event" fans, not race fans. I wonder how many NASCAR fans could tell you the CI of the engine or anything about it?

[hoffman900]

The assumption is they were always not that. People haven’t changed...

[ClassAct]

I agree with you Gary and you too Hoffman. The reality is the stands empty any time a fuel car isn't on the track. That includes the alcohol classes, Comp, Stock, Super Stock and the Super classes.

The fans that stay in the stands for those classes either don't want to walk around or they are actual fans of drag racing. There where I got the 65% number. I could be low on that. Those fans would rather watch them rebuild and test fire a fuel car than watch lower class cars make passes. I'm ok with that. Just don't base your marketing program on what happens at a National. I used to hit 2 races a year. When it went 1000 feet I quit going. I still watch on TV, but I have no desire to go see 1000 foot racing live.

[Mike Laws]

Most of the fans now days at NASCAR and NHRA are "Event" fans, not race fans. I wonder how many NASCAR fans could tell you the CI of the engine or anything about it?

The stands were a LOT more full when carbs were run in Nascar than now and PS was more popular. Are carbs the game-changer? Probably not. But something has run the race-minded fans away from Nascar and NHRA.

[gnicholson]

They need to completely tear up Pro Stock and start over. Something similar to factory stock where they use stock bodies basically stock suspensions and Factory engines. Basically all of the pro classes suck ass right now but i would allmost rather watch the anti American soccer dykes than top fuel

[GARY C]

Most of the fans now days at NASCAR and NHRA are "Event" fans, not race fans. I wonder how many NASCAR fans could tell you the CI of the engine or anything about it?

The stands were a LOT more full when carbs were run in Nascar than now and PS was more popular. Are carbs the game-changer? Probably not. But something has run the race-minded fans away from Nascar and NHRA.

I think it's the ever growing control over what the teams can do and killing competition, it would be like the NFL telling the teams they can't throw the ball more than 30 yards and adding a weight penalty to to faster running backs because they can out run the other players.

I think the teams should be able to run what ever they want within a limited rule structure and may the best team win. But we will never see those days again unless you follow No Prep Grudge racing.

[GerryP]

...i would allmost rather watch the anti American soccer dykes than top fuel

I haven't quite reached that level of despair

But seriously, this dilemma as to how to put asses in seats -or eyes on the TV- is more complex than nearly anyone can imagine. It involves psychology and is therefore a complex system. They can focus group the crap out of the question and never get a comprehensive solution.

I understand where you're going with this, though. How popular was NASCAR or Pro Stock in 1970? Back then, they were using the same body as your car. Same engine that was between your fenders. Yeah, they tarted things up a bit, but by God, they were using stuff you did! I can say I liked that era much more than the contemporary times, but that's just me. And I go back to how popular were the classes back then?

I think they are chasing a different audience today than Fifty years ago. Back then, the folks who went to races changed their own oil and fixed stuff. Maybe today's audience fixes stuff with a credit card and goes to the local lube goob for vital fluids. Cars are appliances to them and as someone else wrote; they are there for the event and have no interest otherwise.

I still watch, but I don't feel I've missed anything if I'm doing something else when the races are on. There's only one day that gets my full attention: Memorial Day. I watch F1 Monaco, Indy, then the 600.

[jake197000]

my neighbors son worked on a top level pro stock team for a few years and showed me some engine parts.i was blown away.he would not let me take any pics. that was after his stint.

[arlancam509]

You can't put the genie back in the bottle, but what if NHRA had allowed carbs and EFI to go head to head w/no restrictions to either? Did they miss a nice opportunity here?

IMHO; spectator interest would have been high (hood scoop vs no scoop would have been fun). It would have brought out the best of both camps in the technical side of our industry and made for some good racing.

I spent A LOT of time at NHRA tracks during 2011-2016, and I saw the grand stands empty out whenever TF cars were done.

EFI and flat hoods absolutely positively did not cause loss of interest in Pro Stock with casual fans. That interest was lost well before the changes.

PS - NHRA asked PS teams for their input on what to do with the class (based on lower car counts & lack of fan interest). No feedback was given.

EFI didn't fix it either. Fuel is THE show. Always has been. 65% of the fans in the stands at a National event are there for fuel cars, and nothing else. A great percentage of those fans couldn't lift the hood off a Pro Stock car, or can tell carbs from EFI if they did manage to get the hood off.

you are speaking the truth.

[RW TECH]

EFI didn't fix it either. Fuel is THE show. Always has been. 65% of the fans in the stands at a National event are there for fuel cars, and nothing else. A great percentage of those fans couldn't lift the hood off a Pro Stock car, or can tell carbs from EFI if they did manage to get the hood off.

We agree, and nothing is going to "fix" it.

People's interests & needs change over time, so nobody should foolishly believe the NHRA conspired to "ruin" PS by making them run flat hoods or EFI. As you stated, casual fans will not know or necessarily care about the differences either way.

[midnightbluS10]

The feed back was (we are just a few rich guys that need a place to race).

Not sure pro drivers are the best people to ask what fans want and how to make things more interesting for the casual fan <shrug> they probably should've asked the fans? Not all of them. Maybe a randomlu picked focus group? I don't know.

I realize that in itself could easily turn to a sh*t show but I feel like they'd be in a better position than from asking the drivers. How do professional drivers know what casual fans want? They likely haven't ever been a casual fan, first of all. So how can they have any idea what a casual fan would want to or not want to see?