ANOTHER SBC STROKER QUESTION 377-

[Elroy]

It's going to require 15-20hp per mph at your weight and ET. So keep that in mind. Its unlikely that you will find 50 horsepower in your cylinder heads without much larger changes.

Those kind of differences will require a change in cylinder head architecture or at the very least some welding and offset shafts on the current ones.

Without knowing specifics. 8800 rpm with non-welded 23 degree standard location heads is very likely to be CONSIDERABLY past peak horsepower point, which may be another reason no gain was realized or not.

That is also a reason why I personally wouldnt guarantee that a smaller camshaft would be the answer.....despite what looks like on the surface to me to be....too big of a camshaft. And running that much duration and narrowing the lobe centers like others suggested can be very difficult to make fit physically due to piston to valve clearances on a 23 degree chevy.

One other thing and then i'll stop rambling, just ignore me if this was previously mentioned and I missed it. Was the combustion chamber volume re-established post head work?

Depending on several things, those kind of valve jobs in those kind of heads can easily add 5 or more cubic centimeters of volume to the chamber.....and that can have a pretty pronounced effect on static comp ratio on a previously 14:1 engine. Just throwing some things out there...good luck.

[joespanova]

One other thing and then i'll stop rambling, just ignore me if this was previously mentioned and I missed it. Was the combustion chamber volume re-established post head work?

Depending on several things, those kind of valve jobs in those kind of heads can easily add 5 or more cubic centimeters of volume to the chamber.....and that can have a pretty pronounced effect on static comp ratio on a previously 14:1 engine. Just throwing some things out there...good luck.

The heads had a clean up cut after new seat installation , which I would expect......the volume is within .5 CC of what they were when I sent them.
I can "dissect" this all day......bottom line 55 degree seats either didnt gain me a thing or , as Larry Meaux indicated in the link I shared , took a little "something" away.

[ClassAct]

One other thing and then i'll stop rambling, just ignore me if this was previously mentioned and I missed it. Was the combustion chamber volume re-established post head work?

Depending on several things, those kind of valve jobs in those kind of heads can easily add 5 or more cubic centimeters of volume to the chamber.....and that can have a pretty pronounced effect on static comp ratio on a previously 14:1 engine. Just throwing some things out there...good luck.

The heads had a clean up cut after new seat installation , which I would expect......the volume is within .5 CC of what they were when I sent them.
I can "dissect" this all day......bottom line 55 degree seats either didnt gain me a thing or , as Larry Meaux indicated in the link I shared , took a little "something" away.

Or you need more than just the valve job. How does the valve job get blamed for not working when nothing else was done to work with it? I mentioned but never asked...are the new valves nail head or tulip?

[PRH]

Most of these steep valve seat angle threads seem to incorporate, to some degree, a theme that the flow doesn’t matter.

Maybe in some applications......... losing flow below lifts approaching .500 lift........ matters after all.

In any case, I would expect whatever the difference was to not be “huge”....... and no way would I not do the before/after dyno test.
Unless the customer sent me the heads and outlined exactly what they wanted done........ and at that point “it is what it is”.

[joespanova]

One other thing and then i'll stop rambling, just ignore me if this was previously mentioned and I missed it. Was the combustion chamber volume re-established post head work?

Depending on several things, those kind of valve jobs in those kind of heads can easily add 5 or more cubic centimeters of volume to the chamber.....and that can have a pretty pronounced effect on static comp ratio on a previously 14:1 engine. Just throwing some things out there...good luck.

The heads had a clean up cut after new seat installation , which I would expect......the volume is within .5 CC of what they were when I sent them.
I can "dissect" this all day......bottom line 55 degree seats either didnt gain me a thing or , as Larry Meaux indicated in the link I shared , took a little "something" away.

Or you need more than just the valve job. How does the valve job get blamed for not working when nothing else was done to work with it? I mentioned but never asked...are the new valves nail head or tulip?

The valves are a flat head intake , basically the same valves that were stainless. They ordered the valves. If something else had to be done to accommodate the valve job THEY should have indicated that. I'm not bad , but I need help once in a while....and if they knew other things had to change this should have come up in the initial conversation.

[Warp Speed]

The heads had a clean up cut after new seat installation , which I would expect......the volume is within .5 CC of what they were when I sent them.
I can "dissect" this all day......bottom line 55 degree seats either didnt gain me a thing or , as Larry Meaux indicated in the link I shared , took a little "something" away.

Or you need more than just the valve job. How does the valve job get blamed for not working when nothing else was done to work with it? I mentioned but never asked...are the new valves nail head or tulip?

The valves are a flat head intake , basically the same valves that were stainless. They ordered the valves. If something else had to be done to accommodate the valve job THEY should have indicated that. I'm not bad , but I need help once in a while....and if they knew other things had to change this should have come up in the initial conversation.

The dreaded valve seat angle debacle! Lol

[SpeierRacingHeads]

We should just all build the same engine with the same heads, with the same cam, then this debate would die...

Until then.... we march on....

[Carnut1]

We should just all build the same engine with the same heads, with the same cam, then this debate would die...

Until then.... we march on....

That would be no fun... I loved going to car shows and seeing such pretty things and saying the old work truck had more work into the engine.

[Elroy]

What would be interesting if one of the professionals on Speedtalk would rework his heads to get him where he wants to be. Their are a lot of pro's here. Speier-Carnut-Weingartener to name just a few. I doubt that it's logistically feasible for many reasons....but that!---would make for an interesting thread. It could be great publicity for the Vendor or individual as well. We just have to set up a GoFundMe collectively to get it done.

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Pair of really steep seats on a SB2.2...

[SpeierRacingHeads]

What would be interesting if one of the professionals on Speedtalk would rework his heads to get him where he wants to be. Their are a lot of pro's here. Speier-Carnut-Weingartener to name just a few. I doubt that it's logistically feasible for many reasons....but that!---would make for an interesting thread. It could be great publicity for the Vendor or individual as well. We just have to set up a GoFundMe collectively to get it done.

The easiest fix is a bigger valve provided it has a big enough seat ring.

Welding throats on older heads, kiss of death, IMO..

Stone valve job is an option.

Or, talk to BES and get a cam recommendation, and make it work.

I think this is a tough situation for Joe. All he wants to do is go faster......

[RevTheory]

I think we need a thorough autopsy on Joe's heads first. It's really just conjecture at this point.

[Old School]

What would be interesting if one of the professionals on Speedtalk would rework his heads to get him where he wants to be. Their are a lot of pro's here. Speier-Carnut-Weingartener to name just a few. I doubt that it's logistically feasible for many reasons....but that!---would make for an interesting thread. It could be great publicity for the Vendor or individual as well. We just have to set up a GoFundMe collectively to get it done.

I agree. Its easy for everyone to say do this and do that with someone else money. If I were in Joe's shoes (and I have been) let those saying I have the wrong cam send me one that they think will work. If the car picks up .05 then I will pay for the cam, if not send it back at no charge. Same with the heads, send a set. If they pick up say a tenth (.10) then buy them, if not send them back. I know Joe has a lot of years in this car. He knows his car and what it should run and if the changes help or not. In the 90's we were running 5.20's in the 1/8 with a small block and tunnel ram with 750 Holleys. Barry Grant came out with the Demon line of carbs. We called and got two of the carbs he recommended after we told him our entire combination. The Demons would not run close to the Holleys. We called back and ask what we needed to do to get them to run after we had worked three weekends to no avail. Barry told us our camshaft was wrong, our headers were wrong, our intake was wrong, and that we would have to change all that to get his carbs to run. I can feel Joe's frustration.

[ClassAct]

What would be interesting if one of the professionals on Speedtalk would rework his heads to get him where he wants to be. Their are a lot of pro's here. Speier-Carnut-Weingartener to name just a few. I doubt that it's logistically feasible for many reasons....but that!---would make for an interesting thread. It could be great publicity for the Vendor or individual as well. We just have to set up a GoFundMe collectively to get it done.

I agree. Its easy for everyone to say do this and do that with someone else money. If I were in Joe's shoes (and I have been) let those saying I have the wrong cam send me one that they think will work. If the car picks up .05 then I will pay for the cam, if not send it back at no charge. Same with the heads, send a set. If they pick up say a tenth (.10) then buy them, if not send them back. I know Joe has a lot of years in this car. He knows his car and what it should run and if the changes help or not. In the 90's we were running 5.20's in the 1/8 with a small block and tunnel ram with 750 Holleys. Barry Grant came out with the Demon line of carbs. We called and got two of the carbs he recommended after we told him our entire combination. The Demons would not run close to the Holleys. We called back and ask what we needed to do to get them to run after we had worked three weekends to no avail. Barry told us our camshaft was wrong, our headers were wrong, our intake was wrong, and that we would have to change all that to get his carbs to run. I can feel Joe's frustration.

The only way I'd do that is if it went on the dyno first, and then on the dyno after. His on the track results would be his to deal with.

[Elroy]

What would be interesting if one of the professionals on Speedtalk would rework his heads to get him where he wants to be. Their are a lot of pro's here. Speier-Carnut-Weingartener to name just a few. I doubt that it's logistically feasible for many reasons....but that!---would make for an interesting thread. It could be great publicity for the Vendor or individual as well. We just have to set up a GoFundMe collectively to get it done.

The easiest fix is a bigger valve provided it has a big enough seat ring.

Welding throats on older heads, kiss of death, IMO..

Stone valve job is an option.

Or, talk to BES and get a cam recommendation, and make it work.

I think this is a tough situation for Joe. All he wants to do is go faster......

Well...BES knew what cam he had when they did they work, so someone else should get the same criteria. I would like to see the heads worked on and keep the same cam. There is more to learn that way. A new cam could have helped his old combo also. Just hypotheticals anyway.

What will make the car faster? Bigger valve, 45 degree seats? Im curious what the resident pro's would do differently.