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GM Rocket block oiling problem

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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af2
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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by af2 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:47 pm

rewguy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:06 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:27 pm


Yeah for 0W-20 it would be.
It is for straight 50w!
I don't know how familiar you are w maxracesoftware......Larry Meaux......But a few years ago he talked about the oil clearance He and his buddy Chris used in their engines......and this is very similar. Even Darin Morgan made a statement along the lines of.....It had been twenty years since he ran less than .003-.0035 on rods OR mains in ANY engine period. This especially is a run "almost right off the trailer", very little warm up time, sportsman style crank.........(no winberg or kellogg) etc. The cheaper cranks tend to move a bit more than the big dollar stuff..... And we've run similar clearances for years and bearings always look new after a year of thrashing.
Yep! I am going to be in the same boat in a couple weeks when I start assembling the Rodec block that has the same oiling as yours. I will plug the rear valley and plug the front galley with .040" holes for the cam. I hope it is enough to oil the upstairs. I was told by a few friends that ran them to do it this way,, We will see. Just putting it out there from another .003" drag racer that my last engine ran 15 years seeing 10,000 more than once and 8500 at the shift. And yes the burnout was with the engine temp at 100*
GURU is only a name.
Adam

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by exhaustgases » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:08 pm

rewguy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:06 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:27 pm


Yeah for 0W-20 it would be.
It is for straight 50w!
I don't know how familiar you are w maxracesoftware......Larry Meaux......But a few years ago he talked about the oil clearance He and his buddy Chris used in their engines......and this is very similar. Even Darin Morgan made a statement along the lines of.....It had been twenty years since he ran less than .003-.0035 on rods OR mains in ANY engine period. This especially is a run "almost right off the trailer", very little warm up time, sportsman style crank.........(no winberg or kellogg) etc. The cheaper cranks tend to move a bit more than the big dollar stuff..... And we've run similar clearances for years and bearings always look new after a year of thrashing.
I liked the its too much for the 50w comment. I guess the old aircraft engine designers knew nothing :lol: :lol: , and since they pretty much did things in the ww2 days that didn't catch on in the racing world for 20 to 30 years later. Good find about Larry Meaux.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by tuffxf » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:14 pm

Gday,
I run between 3.5 and 3.8 on the mains, 3.2 - 3.3 rods, 20/50 torco.1.8 - 1.9 thou on morel ultra pro lifters
No issues touch wood.
Your issue will be what you have done to the lifters sending lots upstairs as well as how much is bleeding past the lifter and past the lifter axle imo.
Cheers

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by WoundUp » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:18 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:08 pm
rewguy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:02 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:06 pm


It is for straight 50w!
I don't know how familiar you are w maxracesoftware......Larry Meaux......But a few years ago he talked about the oil clearance He and his buddy Chris used in their engines......and this is very similar. Even Darin Morgan made a statement along the lines of.....It had been twenty years since he ran less than .003-.0035 on rods OR mains in ANY engine period. This especially is a run "almost right off the trailer", very little warm up time, sportsman style crank.........(no winberg or kellogg) etc. The cheaper cranks tend to move a bit more than the big dollar stuff..... And we've run similar clearances for years and bearings always look new after a year of thrashing.
I liked the its too much for the 50w comment. I guess the old aircraft engine designers knew nothing :lol: :lol: , and since they pretty much did things in the ww2 days that didn't catch on in the racing world for 20 to 30 years later. Good find about Larry Meaux.
There's no comparison between engines built in 1940 and engines designed and built now.

Since ww2 engines are so good, why don't they still design and manufacture engines that way? There's no way an engine designed and built 80 years ago can compare in any way to something recent when it comes to manufacturing tolerances, clearances between parts, etc...

Maybe that's why they could use 50w with no issues.

What are these things you refer to that they did that supposedly didnt catch on in racing until 1970?

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:12 am

WoundUp wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:18 am


There's no comparison between engines built in 1940 and engines designed and built now. CARS ? I'M TALKING AIRCRAFT ENGINES.
YOUR RIGHT THEY WERE BUILT BETTER BACK THEN, AND WITH MORE CARE.
Since ww2 engines are so good, why don't they still design and manufacture engines that way? BECAUSE EVERYONE LIKES TURBINES IN PLANES NOW.
THERE IS NO DEMAND FOR THEM SO NO ONE MAKES THEM. PRETTY SIMPLE TO FIGURE OUT.

There's no way an engine designed and built 80 years ago can compare in any way to something recent when it comes to manufacturing tolerances, clearances between parts, etc... NOT TRUE. BACK THEN THERE WERE ACTUALLY MACHINISTS AND A SKILL LEVEL. WITHOUT THE COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE NOWADAYS, THERE ARE MANY PARTS NOW THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE COULD MAKE.
NO CNC BACK THEN AND THE TOLERANCES WERE AS CLOSE AS TODAY, AND THE MATERIALS WERE MORE CAREFULLY MADE AS WELL, YES THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR BETTER STUFF NOW, BUT THINGS ARE WORSE BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF CARE IN MANUFACTURING NOW, BACK THEN WITH NO CARBIDE CUTTERS THINGS WERE DONE DEAD SLOW, NOW ITS BUST YOUR REAR OR YOUR OUT THE DOOR, BEEN THERE DONE THAT. AND METAL CHEMISTRY SUFFERS FROM THE SAME THING, YOU SHOULD SEE THE INCLUSIONS I'VE RUN INTO IS SUPPOSED HIGH QUALITY SUPER EXPENSIVE MATERIAL, WELL THEN THERES THE CHINA METALS TOO.


Maybe that's why they could use 50w with no issues. ACTUALLY IT IS SAE 60 EQUIVALENT WEIGHT. AND THE VISCOSITY IS NOT TO COVER UP A MANUFACTURING ISSUE, IT'S TO SUPPORT THE LOAD.

What are these things you refer to that they did that supposedly didnt catch on in racing until 1970?
NOS, AND ADI AND SOME STUFF THAT NEEDED CNC, THERE IS MORE I'M DONE FOR NOW.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by tenxal » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:55 am

Charliesauto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:06 pm
Those grooves you added are massive and it appears you have two per hole. If you ever do another set, have someone surface grind them or mill with a carbide endmill. One .002" deep flat per hole adds a lot of oil and consider doing just one hole per lifter.
Amen.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by Warp Speed » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:37 am

The wide main and rod clearances everyone here is touting, may be warranted, if you are making 2500+whp. With the mid 9 second runs, I am guessing thats not the case, unless the engine is in a cement truck! Lol
The thread is about an oil control problem. While the extensive mods to the lifters, and maybe positioning of the lifters to the oil galley are the main cause, the slobbery clearances Everywhere are not helping!
With All Due Respect to the big names mentioned, oiling systems are probably one of the last things anyone here should challenge my veiws on, regardless of combination....... :wink:

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by tenxal » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:44 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:37 am
The wide main and rod clearances everyone here is touting, may be warranted, if you are making 2500+whp. With the mid 9 second runs, I am guessing thats not the case, unless the engine is in a cement truck! Lol
The thread is about an oil control problem. While the extensive mods to the lifters, and maybe positioning of the lifters to the oil galley are the main cause, the slobbery clearances Everywhere are not helping!
With All Due Respect to the big names mentioned, oiling systems are probably one of the last things anyone here should challenge my veiws on, regardless of combination....... :wink:
I hear 'ya. Multiple seemingly insignificant individual things can have a big effect to the overall situation. All that little stuff adds up.

Another thing that's rarely considered is the huge amount of oil that gushes from the cam bearings.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by AA Performance » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:48 am

Surprised that no one has mentioned sump design. Do you have baffles and windage tray because bad design can really whip up the oil and that will drop oil pressure as well.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by rewguy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:02 pm

Yes.....it has a kickout, built in baffle and windage tray. After restricting the oil, it now has a rock steady 73-74 lbs oil pressure across the finish line with no issues at all. Thank God.

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by shoedoos » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:09 am

Titan is a bottom feed pump....do you have enough clearance to the floor of thepan.....in other words could it be sucking the floor up to the bottom of the pump?

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Re: GM Rocket block oiling problem

Post by rewguy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:07 pm

shoedoos wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:09 am
Titan is a bottom feed pump....do you have enough clearance to the floor of thepan.....in other words could it be sucking the floor up to the bottom of the pump?
7/16 and the bottom of the pan is sturdy

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