Custom vs Catalog Cams

[paulzig]

i like Comps business model, they have this large master lobe list you pick the core, then pick out the lobes you want for IN and EX LSA/ICL/ECL and they make it for you without any questions asked.

Thats a reason to go away from catalog to custom, if you are going to screw up something you might as well do it yourself

[plovett]

i like Comps business model, they have this large master lobe list you pick the core, then pick out the lobes you want for IN and EX LSA/ICL/ECL and they make it for you without any questions asked.

Thats a reason to go away from catalog to custom, if you are going to screw up something you might as well do it yourself

I agree with you on that. That is the beauty of Compcams. They have a huge lobe catalog, and IF you know EXACTLY what you want you just pick it out and order it. Pretty cool in that respect.

JMO,

paulie

[plovett]

Could Camking do better than me every time? Certainly. But I like making my own mistakes.

[Joe-71]

i like Comps business model, they have this large master lobe list you pick the core, then pick out the lobes you want for IN and EX LSA/ICL/ECL and they make it for you without any questions asked.

Thats a reason to go away from catalog to custom, if you are going to screw up something you might as well do it yourself

BUT if the business model is based on wrong information, then it is NOT going to give you the best camshaft for your application, regardless of how many lobes you pick from. You just bought yourself a paper weight. Joe-JDC

[David Vizard]

Just picked this thread up just a moment ago.

I have not bought a catalog cam in nearly 40 years. That said I have had several run-ins with cam companies that want me to use their recommended catalog cam for whatever article I may be doing. In such situations I also buy what I know will work best and test their cam with their spec Vs their cam with my specs. My cams - sometimes with identical lobes to theirs, always woops what they recommend and rarely less than by 20 hp and 20 lbs ft.

After the dust has settled from testing I ask the cam company concerned do they want me to use their cam figures for the article or mine. They alway - sometimes a little begrudgingly - choose mine. I also ask for my money back on what I have spent to make them look a little better and supply the reader with more productive info.

I am working very hard for you guys to be able to get the right cam for your build whether or not you are an expert. Remember, it is possible to grind the right cam for just the same money as the wrong one!!!!

DV

[David Vizard]

i like Comps business model, they have this large master lobe list you pick the core, then pick out the lobes you want for IN and EX LSA/ICL/ECL and they make it for you without any questions asked.

Thats a reason to go away from catalog to custom, if you are going to screw up something you might as well do it yourself

I agree with you on that. That is the beauty of Compcams. They have a huge lobe catalog, and IF you know EXACTLY what you want you just pick it out and order it. Pretty cool in that respect.

JMO,

paulie

A little point here - it is not a case of knowing exactly what you want but exactly what the engine combo wants

DV

[paulzig]

[You just bought yourself a paper weight. Joe-JDC

We can just call it the R&D cam, control cam or cam no.1

[Rick!]

Jon, are we answering your question in the manner you'd intended?

That's not a snarky comment; I'm curious to see where you're headed.

Not really.

I understand the advantages.

My question is more about the point of decision for the customer to stop looking at catalogs and order the custom cam.

What motivated the decision to fork one way vs the other?

For example, I find myself influenced by convenience more and more. I wonder how much of an influence that is, just order something at 10pm Sunday night because you know you won't have time in the day for the foreseeable week to fill out a form or answer questions.

Maybe people worry about price, but don't know the difference exactly.

As Mike mentioned, need to get it quickly.

Back in the early 80's I worked in a chassis dyno shop and did a bunch of performance work on customer's hot rods. The catalog cams worked ok at that time and we made money on simple combinations.

In the late 80's, I worked on exotics and other cool stuff. The owner wanted 400hp out of his 289 Cobra so he could play with vintage racing crowd. The first Jones cam I used "only" made 388hp so I gave the results to him and received a second cam that made 400hp at only 9.5:1 compression. The owner was happy and I was tired of flogging 4 Webers on the dyno.
After that, I was sold on custom cams.
Just wish I knew about Jones Cams earlier as my personal hot rod could have used 50 more hp over the catalog Comp Cams CS 282S-10. I wouldn't have guessed that a little less duration and split lift would have helped that much.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

So in your example, the decision making point was a need for more power and running out of low cost variables to change.

[Joe-71]

I see a lot of complaining about the low scoring range on the dyno sessions at EMC. This year, the competitor can choose a 3000 rpm range starting from 3200 and ending at 7200 rpm, with the pulls starting 200 rpm before, and ending 100 rpm after the scoring range. So if you start at 4200, you end up at 7200 for scoring, and the pull starts at 4000, and ends at 7300 rpm. The lowest point the dyno will be loaded is 3000 for a 3200-6200 pull. Selecting a camshaft for these old iron engines to show how they can be built to perform will need something other than a catalog camshaft for best results. Joe-JDC

[BobbyB]

Jon,

You ask, "How do you (you personally) decide when to go with a catalog cam or have a custom cam made?"

I have very little experience, but much interest.

How do YOU say one should make the decision to go with a custom cam?

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

Jon,

You ask, "How do you (you personally) decide when to go with a catalog cam or have a custom cam made?"

I have very little experience, but much interest.

How do YOU say one should make the decision to go with a custom cam?

That would depend on the requirements, resources and knowledge one has.

If your requirements exceed your knowledge and resources, then it makes sense to have a consultant involved.

If you have knowledge of what you need but no way to find that in catalog data, then order what you need from someone that can make it.

If your requirements are easily met with a catalog cam, buy one and forget about it.

My question is less technical and more about the psychology of the decision and the trade-offs of time and effort and requirements.
In other words "consumer behavior".

[Rick!]

So in your example, the decision making point was a need for more power and running out of low cost variables to change.

Correct, I bought the custom cam guy's knowledge and experience as money really wasn't an issue at the time.

[Walter R. Malik]

I see a lot of complaining about the low scoring range on the dyno sessions at EMC. This year, the competitor can choose a 3000 rpm range starting from 3200 and ending at 7200 rpm, with the pulls starting 200 rpm before, and ending 100 rpm after the scoring range. So if you start at 4200, you end up at 7200 for scoring, and the pull starts at 4000, and ends at 7300 rpm. The lowest point the dyno will be loaded is 3000 for a 3200-6200 pull. Selecting a camshaft for these old iron engines to show how they can be built to perform will need something other than a catalog camshaft for best results. Joe-JDC

Especially considering the .600" valve lift rule.

[CamKing]

My question is less technical and more about the psychology of the decision and the trade-offs of time and effort and requirements.
In other words "consumer behavior".

That's an interesting question.
In the 80's and 90's, the vast majority of my customers were race teams, and professional race engine builders who were building 25-40+ race engines a year.
For them, the added cost was nothing. When IndyCar went to Normally Aspirated engines in the mid 90's, you'd run the risk of not making the field for the Indy 500, if you didn't buy my cams, so $4,800 was a small price to pay.
For a circle track engine builder, the number of engines they sell a year, has a lot to do, with the number of races their engines won, the year before. For them, spending more on a cam, for an added 10-20hp, if a great investment.
For the hobbyist, back then, it normally didn't make sense to them, to spend the extra cash on a custom cam. Most had no flow data on their ports. Most had no access to a dyno. Most never missed the added HP they could have had with a custom cam, because you can't miss something you never had.

Now, with all the dynos available, port flow data, and computer modeling, people can calculate what their engine should make. They can calculate how fast it should run. They have a realistic number they can shoot for, and will be disappointed if they don't hit it. This makes it a little harder for them to "Cheap-out" on something as important as a camshaft.