2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown - First Look - Better than the 2JZ?

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown - First Look - Better than the 2JZ?
BMW co-developed.

Quite advanced for a production engine.

[Orr89rocz]

Curious how it will hold up in real high hp stuff like the 2jz has.
Our local shop just went 10.79 at 128 on the new supra with only drag radials for mods i think. Not sure if it was tuned or anything yet. Pretty impressive

[Carnut1]

Some very cool tech in this engine. I am not a fan of the integrated exhaust manifold. I also wonder how durable that rocker ratio changing system is on the intakes.

[peejay]

Some very cool tech in this engine. I am not a fan of the integrated exhaust manifold. I also wonder how durable that rocker ratio changing system is on the intakes.

What is interesting is that the Honda K series engines went to an integrated exhaust manifold, and it turns out to be much better for making power when a turbo is involved, and is about a wash for nonturbo engines vs. a 4 port engine with a header.

The Valvetronic is not unreliable mechanically. Any problem I have seen with them involved the motor that controls it taking a dump, sometimes taking out the PCM in the process. But there are several different generations of it, it's practically old tech at this point.

[Carnut1]

Some very cool tech in this engine. I am not a fan of the integrated exhaust manifold. I also wonder how durable that rocker ratio changing system is on the intakes.

What is interesting is that the Honda K series engines went to an integrated exhaust manifold, and it turns out to be much better for making power when a turbo is involved, and is about a wash for nonturbo engines vs. a 4 port engine with a header.

The Valvetronic is not unreliable mechanically. Any problem I have seen with them involved the motor that controls it taking a dump, sometimes taking out the PCM in the process. But there are several different generations of it, it's practically old tech at this point.

The one advantage the intergrated exhaust manifold has is I would think it keeps the exhaust hotter which would help spool up. Unless they have it completly surrounded with water.

[peejay]

Some very cool tech in this engine. I am not a fan of the integrated exhaust manifold. I also wonder how durable that rocker ratio changing system is on the intakes.

What is interesting is that the Honda K series engines went to an integrated exhaust manifold, and it turns out to be much better for making power when a turbo is involved, and is about a wash for nonturbo engines vs. a 4 port engine with a header.

The Valvetronic is not unreliable mechanically. Any problem I have seen with them involved the motor that controls it taking a dump, sometimes taking out the PCM in the process. But there are several different generations of it, it's practically old tech at this point.

The one advantage the intergrated exhaust manifold has is I would think it keeps the exhaust hotter which would help spool up. Unless they have it completly surrounded with water.

The ones I am familiar with are surrounded by water. But that is okay.

I forgot who first discovered it, but catalyst light-off is mostly down to how many bends are in the exhaust between the exhaust valve and the catalyst. The integrated manifolds minimize the number of bends to essentially none, or one if the direct-mounted converter angles down instead of out/back. They also simplify the exhaust plumbing and get rid of a common failure point (cracking manifolds, and leaky gaskets due to shearing studs) and as a bonus, since the exhaust doesn't lose as much kinetic energy on its way out, it turns out to be fantastic for spool when you bolt a turbo to the head exit instead of a catalytic converter.

The exhaust "port" has to be jacketed or the heads would melt down. All the same, I have a sneaking suspiscion that the jacketing also helps cool the exhaust under high load so that it doesn't melt converters so easily.

[Circlotron]

Flathead Ford V8s had trouble with overheating partly because of the long exhaust ports passing from the inside of the V to the outside while being surrounded by water. Low compression ratio and consequent high exhaust temps wouldn’t have helped. I can’t help wondering if this will be a problem on this engine too when producing ten times the power of a flatty.

[Sparksalot]

Good luck improving the exhaust side of the head without major and difficult surgery.

The BMW version of this engine has significantly higher stock output. Bad for Toyota. The current Road and Track has performance numbers for the Supra. I Ioved my Supras of old which were not as fast as the current model in stock form.

From a first look the bottom end is nowhere as robust as the 2JZ and will never hold the outrageous power the 2JZ was capable of handling with stock parts. The 2JZ was way overbuilt for what it offered in stock form.

The rear chain cam drive makes sense: far less crankshaft torsional vibration influences into the cam drive when taken from the rear of the crank where the flywheel, etc. reside.

Time will tell, let the games begin!

[Kevin Johnson]

For me the most interesting point is the vestigial point on the main caps for a secondary mounting ala the Mazda B6 and BP. At this point flow over the cap appears paramount. Perhaps NVH is improved with the offset. Stronger bracing still available if needed.

[peejay]

Flathead Ford V8s had trouble with overheating partly because of the long exhaust ports passing from the inside of the V to the outside while being surrounded by water. Low compression ratio and consequent high exhaust temps wouldn’t have helped. I can’t help wondering if this will be a problem on this engine too when producing ten times the power of a flatty.

People are running 1000hp with integrated manifold Hondas.

[JodyB]

viewtopic.php?t=43543

[Circlotron]

viewtopic.php?t=43543

So I'm getting older.
I forget stuff.

[Rick!]

I'm thinkin' the soot covered valves are the intakes and the clean ones are exhaust (9:55). Slight error on the video guy but an error nonetheless.
It would be interesting to see behind the core plugs on the exhaust side to see if any integral steel is used to line the exhaust passage.
Also hard to tell by the plastic octupus t-stat housing is if it uses reverse flow cooling. Since it attaches to two different planes, at least they used an o-ring slip joint off the back of the water pump to allow for relative movement. The one large hose going straight to the exhaust side does appear to be on the outlet side of the pump.
The intercooler/radiator/condensor module is trick.
The extra cooler is for the intercooler coolant that has its own pump? the connections appear too large for a trans cooler.

Lotsa PA 6/6 on the engine subassemblies. Gotta be a coupla wheelbarrows of yen for all that injection mold tooling for a low volume car.

[gunt]

sorry , to me this is brutal for toyota to do this ,
for the guy that quoted honda pushing 1000bhp , this is about the limit and they have to revert back to the older head to push higher hp , the exhaust on 1&4 only flow similar to the old b heads ,
so while the new engine will make 1000bhp easy it will defiantly struggle past a certain point ,
the chain at the back of the engine , this was only done initially for a crash rating , and has cost them dearly on the 4cylinder diesel .
i see a billet head coming once the power restriction has been capped .

its on the web for a while but some one bought a new supra to drift and did the right thing , put a 2j in it .
even on mapping individual cylinder trims are going to be a night mare

[LoganD]

Some very cool tech in this engine. I am not a fan of the integrated exhaust manifold. I also wonder how durable that rocker ratio changing system is on the intakes.

The integrated exhaust manifold is for turbine response. They are minimizing the volume between the exhaust valves and the turbine.