accurately measuring port cross section area

[GARY C]

I figured it couldn't be that simple... What if I use the governments math?

Ya, the new discovery math won't work.

Yep it does eventually.... LOL

Thats crazy!

[midnightbluS10]

Ya, the new discovery math won't work.

Yep it does eventually.... LOL

Thats crazy!

What's crazier is I can do all of that in my head quicker than they can write the first set of numbers to try to explain it all. It's almost as if they're trying to teach kids those shortcuts I do in my head, using math lessons except it don't work like that. Either you get it or you don't, imo.

[David Redszus]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.

What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

[GARY C]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.

What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

[gmrocket]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.

What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

[Stan Weiss]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.

What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

When you develop your intake port. Do you use a naked port, a port with a radius plate, or use the intake manifold that will be used with the heads?

Stan

[Outlaw383]

Gmrocket this is great thanks for sharing !

[GARY C]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.

What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

I was speaking about the intake, I only flow the exhaust for sound with no pipe.

My guess is if you were going to try to find a way to develop an exhaust port on a flow bench you would need a pipe with probes installed or holes for probes but I would not even know where to start or what you would be looking for.

[gmrocket]

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

I was speaking about the intake, I only flow the exhaust for sound with no pipe.

My guess is if you were going to try to find a way to develop an exhaust port on a flow bench you would need a pipe with probes installed or holes for probes but I would not even know where to start or what you would be looking for.

Same goes for the intake,, with just a clay radius at the opening when probing, how accurate can that be ?

Sweeping runners on a single plane favor certain areas of the port over another..can't duplicate that kind of flow bias when probing.

Maybe a straight shot intake manifold like a T ram you could actually make up an entry that simulates the intake and probe down that..

But anything else, I think it's a crap shoot

[gmrocket]

I

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

When you develop your intake port. Do you use a naked port, a port with a radius plate, or use the intake manifold that will be used with the heads?

Stan

I try to use the intake that will be on the engine,, or at least,, something that simulates the last few inches of the manifold exit.

It's not hard to make up a piece out of sheet metal and some epoxy or putty

[GARY C]

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

I was speaking about the intake, I only flow the exhaust for sound with no pipe.

My guess is if you were going to try to find a way to develop an exhaust port on a flow bench you would need a pipe with probes installed or holes for probes but I would not even know where to start or what you would be looking for.

Same goes for the intake,, with just a clay radius at the opening when probing, how accurate can that be ?

Sweeping runners on a single plane favor certain areas of the port over another..can't duplicate that kind of flow bias when probing.

Maybe a straight shot intake manifold like a T ram you could actually make up an entry that simulates the intake and probe down that..

But anything else, I think it's a crap shoot

Yet it seems the best heads and power per cube seem to come from the guys that focus on air speed and I don't think any of them flow the head with an intake, they size the intake based on mathematical air speed and that is usually marked and measured every inch, they do the same with molds of the head for the best measurement in relation to air speed.

Phil Martin Nascar cylinder head developer has some pretty good info in his interview regarding intake design. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=57582

[gruntguru]

Cross section area makes sense for a straight pipe.
What becomes of the effective cross sectional area when the pipe has a bend in it?

The easy answer is the CSA should lie on a plane perpendicular to the flow field. The hard part is determining where that is. . . and what to do if the perpendicular surface happens to be not flat.

In general if the bent "pipe" has constant CSA, the plane should meet the pipe walls at 90 degrees. If the bent pipe is straight tapered, the plane should meet the pipe walls at the same angle all around - 90 deg + (taper angle)/2.

[HDBD]

My guess is this is why probing air speed is needed in relation to cross section.

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

I was speaking about the intake, I only flow the exhaust for sound with no pipe.

My guess is if you were going to try to find a way to develop an exhaust port on a flow bench you would need a pipe with probes installed or holes for probes but I would not even know where to start or what you would be looking for.

Here is another option
http://rtstooling.com/

[GARY C]

How effective, or accurate is probing without an exhaust stub on the port that's the size and shape of the primary pipe used on the engine?

How would you even manage that maneuver?

I was speaking about the intake, I only flow the exhaust for sound with no pipe.

My guess is if you were going to try to find a way to develop an exhaust port on a flow bench you would need a pipe with probes installed or holes for probes but I would not even know where to start or what you would be looking for.

Here is another option
http://rtstooling.com/

Yes I have seen that, it probably wouldn't be to hard to make but I am not sure what you would be looking for in terms of speed or pressure and you would probably have to do years of dynoing different seat and throat changes to build a data base.