We are currently running on the new domain and server: www.Speed-Talk.com

IMPORTANT: Update your bookmarks to https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/
(Right-click the URL and select "Bookmark this link")

Base Oil Groups Explained

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
Kevin Johnson
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 8668
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:41 am
Location:

Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by Kevin Johnson » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:03 am


David Redszus
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7858
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by David Redszus » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:43 pm

A worthwhile and useful article, Kevin. Thanks for posting it.

It should make clear the benefit of oil analysis instead of conjecture and marketing hype.

GLHS60
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 974
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:55 am
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada

Re: Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by GLHS60 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:42 pm

Agreed!!

In my case where my analysis is anecdotal I'm very wary of hype.

I've been randomly mixing oils for about 50 yrs with no observable bad effects.

Mostly stock Engines but some Drag, dirt track and Turbo applications.

About 1997 I built a 2.2 Engine for my 1986 Omni Turbo and regularly run 24 PSI.

Originally I used Mobil 1 but suffered an annoying valve train tick after a hard run.

A switch to Quaker State # 30 eliminated the tick with no other changes.

It's thought the lack of a bleed hole in the hydraulic lash adjuster is the cause.

Many adapt later 2.4 lash adjusters to the ancient 2.2/2.5's as they have a bleed hole.

Any good anecdotal analyst can't be content with one change so Mobil 1 was tried again often.

Results were consistent, Mobil 1 was the ticker after a run, all other conventionals were better.

It ran great on a diet of #40 HD conventional with about a qt of synthetic after that.

About 2 yrs ago I disassembled the Engine for some upgrades and it was in excellent condition.

The crank, bearings and Super 60 slider cam were about as perfect as one could hope.

The Super 60 cam has a poor reputation as many have reported early catastrophic failures.

All the while my many vehicles that came and went have lived on the same #40 with something.

The something is some synthetic and lighter weight depending on conditions and whats on sale.

My 2001 Sebring Sedan 2.7L V6, that my wife bought new received dealer oil while under warranty.

2.7 has been wonderful but many report sludging, related to a leaking internal water pump gasket.

After the warranty period I ran it on every combination from straight 40 to 5-20 and in between.

It presently had 350 + k and it still runs excellent, it's never had any actual Engine work.

I replaced the water pump gasket and spark plugs at about 180 K as maintenance/precaution.

All this blabber is mostly me practicing typing after a stroke and mostly about agreeing with you.

I'm thinking most any available Engine oil is fine in most any Engine.

I'm very wary of marketing hype.

Thanks
Randy


David Redszus wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:43 pm
A worthwhile and useful article, Kevin. Thanks for posting it.

It should make clear the benefit of oil analysis instead of conjecture and marketing hype.
Sherwood Park
Alberta,Canada
There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

hoodeng
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:53 pm
Location: South Australia

Re: Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by hoodeng » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:36 am

Thanks for the post Kevin.
i read with interest the section on lubrication consolidation, it had more to do with streamlining inappropriate storage more so than actual product line consolidation. This bought an instance to mind that was experienced where i used to work in the railways.

With numerous types and brands of earth moving and track machinery there was a bewildering array of lube requirements, so when doing field services one had to be mindful of what plant was to be serviced in a weekly run, the repair truck would then be loaded with boxes of appropriate filters, scheduled service items and extra drums of whatever special application lubes were required. The workshop on the truck would barely have walking space through the center.

A lubricants crossover compatibility was investigated, what we found was that manufacturers did not like much if any drift in their specs, there was some room to move in hydraulic oils insofar as same grade different manufacturer allowed. There was less room to move in engine lubricants, part of the answer here was to shift all the lower spec N/A engines up to turbo spec lubricants but this came at a cost premium. Drive line lubes were different again, some manufacturers gave no option apart from the schedule lubes dictated.

Even coolant bases were different between manufacturers, mix some of these and you could be trying to pump grease in a cooling system.

dannobee
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:01 pm
Location:

Re: Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by dannobee » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:33 am

With respect to RR, it's the same today. We have 8 different kinds of GREASE on our rail cars. I've tried to get the engineering department to consolidate into one good synthetic grease, but to no avail. As you said, the specs for specified lubricants are so narrow that end user is forced to buy from the OEM, even if the end user's engineering department has proof of lubricant related failures. Everyone knows that some of their lubricants are shit, but nobody wants to sign off and be held responsible for anything.

hoodeng
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:53 pm
Location: South Australia

Re: Base Oil Groups Explained

Post by hoodeng » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:11 pm

Covered it in a nut shell, dannobee. Who wants to put their hand up if something does not work out? because there is that much rolling stock ,plant and equipment in service in any railway system consolidation makes very good sense, but, who wants to don the cross hairs?

I would say in the system i was working in there was a lot of spectograph analysis done on oils regularly, the metrology section had a dedicated oil analysis section that was rolling and burning all day [i spent a large section of a shift coating/soaking carbon wheels], I even got to put a sample of oil from my Bonneville through the test, the chemist told me not to take too much notice of the results as there was no base line to gauge them against, good thing, it came back looking like a melange of puss.

Cheers.

Post Reply