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What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:09 pm

The crank was butter smooth before and after we removed the camshaft.

cjperformance
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by cjperformance » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:17 pm

Im sure you'll go over everything but pay close attention to piston skirt measurements aswell.
Do you have press fit or have floating pins?
When the shop removed the piston to resize the rod it could have been distorted a little it they pressed it off or even dropped it and may have one skirt pushed in a couple thou or more at its lower end, this will make it knock.
A tight piston pin will also give a knock. Check , check, check.
Is the material in the oil magnetic?
Craig.

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:32 pm

Hey Craig, why would a tight wrist pin cause a knock? I will check on floating vs pressed tomorrow. The stuff in the oil is not magnetic and I'm wondering if what we are seeing is artifacts from the black moly/graphite assembly lube?

cjperformance
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by cjperformance » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:19 am

Blakeslee wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:32 pm
Hey Craig, why would a tight wrist pin cause a knock? I will check on floating vs pressed tomorrow. The stuff in the oil is not magnetic and I'm wondering if what we are seeing is artifacts from the black moly/graphite assembly lube?
A tight pin causes the piston to rock harshly over tdc and more so bdc where there is less piston skirt support in most engines particularly strokers.
Non magnetic stuff is obviously going to be piston material or bearing facing material etc so look really close.
Yes, moly/graphite lube does make the oil look metallic.
I use moly/graphite lube on FT cams and after cam run in the oil is dark and glittery looking but of course there is no actual mechanical issue.
But if you have a knock, the problem cant be just the prelude colouring the oil.
Craig.

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:39 am

Okay, so that is another thing we will check today. Thanks again for the great advice!
Blakeslee

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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by 289nate » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:12 am

Was it a knock or noise from the valve train? How did you set the preload on the cam?

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:37 pm

Just got back from the machine shop and the consensus is moly-graphite assembly lube is most of what we are seeing in the filter and pan.
We showed the machinist a video we made of the noise and he said it was valvetrain related issue for sure.
He also said there was a little more metal than he would like to see but with a thorough hand wash pressure cleaning we should be good to go.
He also said he prefers Redline assembly lube as it looks less alarming during break-in.
Went ahead and pulled apart a few more lifters and found metal flakes inside most likely from the original event.
I have to say the crank,cam,connecting rod bearings and journals look pristine.
The wrist pins are pressed in and all are moving freely with no signs of seizing/stiffness.
At this point we are going to super clean everything, install new camshaft and lifters and run it.
Regarding lifter adjustment we went to zero lash + 3/4 turn preload....this is a flat tappet hydraulic cam.
Thanks again, I will follow up once we get it back together.
Blakeslee

cjperformance
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by cjperformance » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:18 pm

Sounds good, just be sure to double check every measurement and clearance as if it were a fresh build. It would really sh!t you if it went back together and had the same noise!
Craig.

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:31 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:18 pm
Sounds good, just be sure to double check every measurement and clearance as if it were a fresh build. It would really sh!t you if it went back together and had the same noise!
No shite man I have the same thought!.....The FPS Probe pistons call for .003-.005 piston to bore clearance and that will be checked before final assembly.
The one big bitch I have is the lack of info you receive on the shop receipts. They don't show the amount removed when the heads were cleaned up etc.
Question for you....What is the best product/method to prevent flash rust once we have the block all washed up?
I've used WD-40 and ATF in the past but not sure if that is the best way?
Blakeslee

cjperformance
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by cjperformance » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Measure those pistons at the measure point, then also measure/compare each piston at the top and bottom of the skirt. I have had several pistons, probably dropped in transit that measure fine at the measure point but are not within comparable measurement at the top or particularly the bottom of the skirt, this WILL cause a knock but the pistons will look fine after short run time.
I use WD40, lots of it. Also if you have a pressure cleaner that can draw detergent thru it, fill the detergent container with wd40, you may need to restrict the pickup hose a little depending on the machine as the wd40 pulls thru faster. Using wd40 in the pressure clean mix works a treat. Mixed with ATF is also fine, even mixed with Kero or Diesel works fine too.
Craig.

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:48 pm

So today we pulled the oil pump apart to check for any metal in the pump body and pick up tube. We washed off with mineral spirits in a clean white 1 gallon bucket and found a bunch of metallic particles there. We tested them with a magnet so ferrous metal for sure.
Is there any way to completely clean the pump thoroughly enough? My biggest concern is the bypass valve....I'm not sure if it is serviceable or if debris could even be lodged there?

cjperformance
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by cjperformance » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:56 pm

Pull the bypass plug out so you can dismantle the bypass valve and spring. Its the only way to get it properly clean.
Just run a tech screw into the plug and hook it out.
Be sure to observe which way the bypass plug is facing before removal.
You can use any cup plug as a replacement, sometimes with a plug that goes in open end 1st(most aftermarket ford pumps) you just need to put a small chamfer in the OD of the plug to get it started.
Craig.

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:15 pm

The plug was installed open end in. I went ahead and used a step bit on the old pump as a test since the screw and hook method didn't work for me.
That plug is tight! I think I'm going to buy a new pump....no confidence in trying to open up the existing one:)
I should of used a larger diameter screw....

Blakeslee
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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:33 pm

Got it! Bigger screw worked perfect plug is out and life is good! The bypass looked great so back together it goes.
Thanks CJ for all the sage advice!
Blakeslee

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Re: What To Do Now 331 Ford Stroker

Post by Blakeslee » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:00 pm

Okay, so now I cannot find a cup plug for this Melling M68 oil pump. I called Melling and they siad I have to buy a K68 rebuild kit which costs $30.00.
A new pump is $40.00 what the!!!!
Where can I find this plug? We have checked with 3 different stores and they do not have the correct size.

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