Warp Speed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:22 pm
ClassAct wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:17 pm
Warp Speed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:48 pm
You're gonna have to be a little more precise than that, and I would be glad to help. But if your just gonna be an ass, keep waiting!
Btw, how does a block effect oil timing?!?
I'm not being an ass Jay. I'm asking a simple question.
So let me back up. You said use a different crank. We both know you are very limited on where the oil holes can go to get everything lined up at the correct time (oil timing). So how can a crank fix an oil timing issue?
If what I've said above is true, and it is, that also means the block has an affect on oil timing. The oil has to go through the block to get to the crank. That is a correct statement. You can't move the hole in the crank that far.
So again, I ask for those of us stuck with running junk (even though much of this junk was made well into the 2000's and may still be made today) how do we fix an oil timing issue without changing the block? A full groove bearing will out oil to the rods full time so there will be there all the time, even though the timing is off.
So the question is how do you fix this issue? Other than buying new parts?
All crank shafts in a 90* v8 are of the same basic architecture, so they will all accept the same "timing", be it good or bad!
And believe me, I've tested allot of timing and feed strategies over the years.
Block feed issues are a different story, but by applying modern oiling system knowledge (along with maybe some tubes or restrictors some place) I dont see many problems from past designs being too hard to overcome., or greatly improve to the point of being a nonissue in most all cases.
None that I can really remember anyway?!? Lol
Thank you warp. That's what I meant earlier when I said there is very little wiggle room to fiddle with in the crank. The issues I've found is the oil timing is incredibly advanced on some engines. In fact, all of the engines I have listed above have very advanced oil timing. As RPM/load goes up, that advanced oil timing means that the oil is getting to the rods way too early.
Moving the hole in the crank far enough to retard the timing can be close to impossible with some engines, as the timing is so far off you can't move the holes in the crank far enough. So you can make it better by doing that, but not getting the timing correct.
There are many band aids tried to correct the timing issue at the block, but I've never really seen one that does it. You can slot the oil feed hole in the block, but the oil hole in the crank has to be lined up with the oil feed hole in the block within a pretty narrow range of degrees. Why certain engines will get after certain Rod bearings or pairs of bearings I've never been able to nail down. My assumption is it has to do with the entire feed system and the bearing(s) that fail are the ones with the most compromises in getting the oil down to the mains in the first place
I've seen any number of tubes, pipes, restrictions, re-routes and the like, but none really actually get the oil timing to the rods where it should be.
Priority main piling has nothing to do with the timing issue either. I hear guys claiming that the fix is to get priority main oiling and it will all be sunshine and rainbows. All priority main oiling does is oil the crank before anything else. Which is great. But it doesn't fix an oil timing issue that is very advanced.
Is any of this making any sense warp? Some of us don't have the luxury of a customer base who will buy and use stuff that has all this engineering worked out. That's why I still use full groove mains on any engine where the oil timing is whacked out. I even made a fixture so I can buy half groove bearings and finish the groove myself. I have made them for the Chrylser stuff, Ford, Pontiac and Buick.
That's why I'm saying in some certain circumstances a full groove main bearing has benefits that outweigh the obvious issues that occur. Engines using full groove mains have a much higher GPM than half groove bearings and all that that encompasses. I also always use a HV/HP pump when using full groove mains because that's the nature of the beast. Getting oil to the rods full time will cover up the wonky oil timing issue to a point. After that, you have to mechanically fix the timing issue, or reduce the RPM at which the failure occurs.
For those that don't understand oil timing and what I mean by advanced oil timing, grab a SBC block and crank and pick whatever flavor of incorrect oil timing block and crank you have access to and look at them very, very close. You'll see the difference between them and then you can understand how a run of the mill SBC will oil the rods to 10k plus and the rest of those engines would be lucky to oil past 7500.
Hopefully warp will read this and make sure I'm not totally insane and correct what I have wrong.
