Nitrided cams

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ProPower engines
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Nitrided cams

Post by ProPower engines »

How many of you guys seem nitrided cams out of the box with as much as a .006-.008 bend in the center??
New with no shipping damage evident to the box?

I have a customer that swears by this process and likes to order his parts himself based on many aspects of a build
but he keeps getting the C brand cams special ordered and they have so much run out they will not even go in the
block. And the last was fitted with brand I and the brand C with #3 and #5 bearings removed still won't go in ](*,) ](*,)
These are BB Mopar 3 bolt cam cores.
Personally I prefer the P-55 core available from Isky. Never had a bad fit or lost a lobe on their FT stuff or rollers either.
The others not so much but attempting to educate him the other way to other options but with him its about cost
and time to get it here only for the most part. Been successful in getting him to think about others cam suppliers now for
a few new upcoming builds but still can't get him away from the nitriding deal.

Any others seeing issues with the process and fit??

Any input is greatly appreciated for his education process. :D
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by Schurkey »

I think I've used ONE nitrided cam. Came from Lunati, before they were taken over by Comp.

As I recall, I had .001 bend in it. It's been a few years...

This was a "warranty replacement" for a cam that had lifter problems previously. The CS guy at Lunati told me that they straighten the Nitrided cams after they come back from "treatment". I paid the $100 upcharge for the Nitriding, but the cam was "free".

Not much to go on, when the sample size is N = 1.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by modok »

It would be nice if the cams were straightened and shipped in a large crate so they could not be damaged., would be nice.
On the other hand,
It's SO easy to straighten them, just fix it.

Personally i don't think nitiriding is "the" solution....but if it's done correctly and works well with whatever the material is, it does work.
I'd be most worried about that, the cam being bent does not worry me any.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by ProPower engines »

I would straighten it but if it snaps its on me. I did not order it for customer it was supplied by him.

I just don't want to chance it on my dime. Better it be dealt with by customer much safer for me that way.
Personally I have always chosen a quality cam over convenience and having to wait long times for a special order.
It always seems the more hands it pass's through more chance there can be an issue.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by GARY C »

If you fix it then the cam company doesn't know it's a problem and will not address it, if everyone make the cam company replace them then they will be forced to address the issue.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by Geoff2 »

I recently fitted a Comp FT cam that was nitrided, no bend in it. My understanding is that Comp uses Plasma nitriding which does not heat up the core as much as gas nitriding, which can & does cause bending because of the high temps used.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by ProPower engines »

GARY C wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:45 am If you fix it then the cam company doesn't know it's a problem and will not address it, if everyone make the cam company replace them then they will be forced to address the issue.
That is just the reason I did not want to fix it for my customer. Not only does it let the cam companies know there is an issue with quality control but it teaches the customer that he don't always know better about where to get good quality
parts from but the next time he will know better :lol:
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by Momus »

ProPower engines wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:28 am I would straighten it but if it snaps its on me. I did not order it for customer it was supplied by him.

I just don't want to chance it on my dime. Better it be dealt with by customer much safer for me that way.
Personally I have always chosen a quality cam over convenience and having to wait long times for a special order.
It always seems the more hands it pass's through more chance there can be an issue.
Does your customer know if it is steel or indeed what it is made from?

I've press straightened a few nitrided 4140 shafts- not cams though- with a lot more woof that yours with no issues.
Last edited by Momus on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by CamKing »

Momus wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:21 am
Does your customer know what steel it is made from?
It's not steel, it's cast iron.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by CamKing »

Geoff2 wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:18 am My understanding is that Comp uses Plasma nitriding which does not heat up the core as much as gas nitriding,
That's what we use, but it still has to be Nitrided at 850f. The issue is, that the cast iron core is hardened to around 52rc, but when you nitrude it at 850f, it reduces the core hardness of the iron. You end up with a cam that has a very hard outer shell(.001"-.003"), but the material behind that outer shell is now only in the mid 40rc range. With high spring pressures, after a while, the material behind the hard outer shell will give way, and the outer shell will start to flake off.

We offer plasma nitriding on our flat tappet cams, for those that want it, but we don't recommend it.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by Tuner »

Is this process AKA "Parkerizing", or is that a different deal?
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by lefty o »

Tuner wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:40 am Is this process AKA "Parkerizing", or is that a different deal?
nitriding and parkerizing are entirely different. parkerizing is just a phosphate finish designed to hold oil. nitriding is an actual heat treat.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by Schurkey »

CamKing wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:29 amWe offer plasma nitriding on our flat tappet cams, for those that want it, but we don't recommend it.
I had no idea. I thought it was a good process.

Thanks for the info.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by ProPower engines »

CamKing wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:29 am
Geoff2 wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:18 am My understanding is that Comp uses Plasma nitriding which does not heat up the core as much as gas nitriding,
That's what we use, but it still has to be Nitrided at 850f. The issue is, that the cast iron core is hardened to around 52rc, but when you nitrude it at 850f, it reduces the core hardness of the iron. You end up with a cam that has a very hard outer shell(.001"-.003"), but the material behind that outer shell is now only in the mid 40rc range. With high spring pressures, after a while, the material behind the hard outer shell will give way, and the outer shell will start to flake off.

We offer plasma nitriding on our flat tappet cams, for those that want it, but we don't recommend it.
That is my main concern as well. With hard outer layer the under lying material that is much softer acts like a softer
centered candy. After a while the outer shell cracks off and you have a buttery center exposed soon after.

Several cam grinder offer a P-55 core option which seems like a better choice by comparison as I have seen more nitrided cam issues then the P-55 cores over the last 10 years or so.
Now that Johnson is no longer making Hyd. FT lifters we are stuck with brand X stuff and unless you get speciality lifters
from suppliers such as Mike and a few others the survival rate is much less.
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Re: Nitrided cams

Post by n2omike »

lefty o wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:46 am
Tuner wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:40 am Is this process AKA "Parkerizing", or is that a different deal?
nitriding and parkerizing are entirely different. parkerizing is just a phosphate finish designed to hold oil. nitriding is an actual heat treat.
I bought two sets of Johnson Parkerized solid flat tappet lifters for an FE I built years ago, about the time of the initial flat tappet lifter scare. Installed one set, and they worked great. Still have the other. Is Parkerizing something seen as being useful on a set of lifters?
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