Rhoads Lifter On Solid Lifter Cam - Setting Lash

[enigma57]

Have a lash adjustment question regarding Rhoads lifters when running them on a solid lifter cam. I spoke with Jack at Rhoads and they have a V-Max lifter that can be run on a solid lifter cam. So I ordered a set for my 292 Chevy inline 6 and they should be here next week.

He said lash adjustments are made using a feeler gauge much like you would with a regular solid lifter. With dry lifter (not pumped up and not having been soaked in oil beforehand) on heel of cam and feeler gauge in place between valve tip and rocker, carefully tighten lash to depress spring loaded plunger in lifter until it 'just' bottoms but does not lift valve off seat. Then tighten poly-lock and proceed to next lifter.

I am thinking that when setting lash, I should 'stack' tolerances. In other words...... Take the recommended hot lash for the solid lifter cam...... Add .002" for initial cold lash setting (iron head and block)...... Then add the amount I want to use for delaying complete pump-up of the fast bleed down Rhoads lifter. He cautioned not to exceed 0.035" in all and the way I have it figured, I should 'just' be within that parameter...... 0.026" lash for intake and 0,028" for exhaust. Does that sound right to you guys?

Any assistance much appreciated,

Harry

[mag2555]

Sounds plusable to me !

I mean if you don't compress then plunger atleast some then there's no point in running a hydro lifter!

I would error at first on the loose side by .002" until you get the motor good & hot a few times to confirm how much things do expand on average.

Has the Cam already been broken in with a regular hydro lifter?
If so I would first want to confirm that all the lobes are good by White marking the push Rods and confirming that each time a valve opens you see the push rod spin.

[enigma57]

No, its a new engine with new cam and new lifters, so must break them in together. Sure wish I had a set of Schubeck's ceramic face lifters for break-in. Was going to pick up a set around the time Joe went out of business. They got scarce and expensive pretty quick when that happened. Was a day late and a dollar short on that one.

Yes, I'll be paying close attention to pushrods during break-in. I'm 72 and this is my last build, so want to do it right. This will be my first experience with Rhoads lifters though, so wanted to get some feedback on setting valve lash when running them on a solid lifter cam.

Thanks,

Harry

[1972ho]

Just curious why a hydraulic lifter on a solid cam and you are basically bottoming the lifter out anyway, when you could just set the lash on a solid and be done.

[pdq67]

Just curious why a hydraulic lifter on a solid cam and you are basically bottoming the lifter out anyway, when you could just set the lash on a solid and be done.

Me too, Harry??

Why bother?

And I always hot lash my solid flat tappet cams after starting the engine.

SBC'c, I spin the P/R between my thumb and fore-finger while setting the lash.

pdq67

[dannobee]

While I don't have direct experience with Rhoads lifters, I do know that they were used in the lower division cars when a vacuum rule was implemented (something like at least 10" Hg at idle). The valves would rattle around like a skeleton jerkin-off at idle but they'd pass the vacuum rule. It allowed them to run a bigger cam than they could with just solid lifters.

Don't know if I'd run them on a street car though, unless the car had power brakes and the current cam wouldn't pull enough vacuum.

[enigma57]

Just curious why a hydraulic lifter on a solid cam and you are basically bottoming the lifter out anyway, when you could just set the lash on a solid and be done.

Me too, Harry??

Why bother?

And I always hot lash my solid flat tappet cams after starting the engine.

SBC'c, I spin the P/R between my thumb and fore-finger while setting the lash.

pdq67

Well, I decided to see how Rhoads lifters would work for me in this particular engine.

Why? Think of the Rhoads lifter as 'old school VVT' (variable valve timing)....... Only without computers and all the complexity of today's modern methods of accomplishing the same thing.

Doable if I can work out the lash setting and optimal weight of oil to accomplish what I would like to do.

So I thought I might enjoy the challenge of experimenting with these lifters and optimizing them for my engine and cam grind.

Best regards,

Harry

[mag2555]

I say have at it and enjoy, if nothing else the Rhoda's lifters are one of the only brand of hydro non roller type lifter to have there plunger held in with a Flat C clip and not the round type that pops out when things get loose!

Ask me how I know this as I am sure others do, lol!

[PRH]

If nothing else, it would make for an interesting dyno test.

A “normal” solid lifter cam, run with std solid lifters lashed to the correct spec.

Then swap to the Rhodes lifters adjusted off the bottom of the travel the same amount as what the lash setting was.

In theory, you’d have decreasing “lash”(increased duration) as the rpm went up.

Depending on rpm, oil temp, and oil viscosity.......you could at some point have almost no more lash.

In my mind I feel as though if the cam was the “right” size with the solid lifters, then decreasing the lash and adding what could end up being a fair amount of seat timing at higher rpm wouldn’t be the hot ticket.

It seems like you’d have to take the decreasing lash into account when selecting the cam, right from the start.

Like I said....... it would be an interesting test.

[Kdub]

This is from the Rhoads site.

HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST THE RHOADS V-MAX FLAT TAPPET CAM KIT

THE RHOADS HYDRA-SOLID LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1
With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters (well oiled with assembly lube applied to the bottom of each lifter) into engine block. Keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting.

STEP 2
Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side ( base circle ) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. Place a .040” feeler gauge between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting a solid lifter cam, and tighten lock nut until the plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Then back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure just releases on the feeler gauge. Use the same feel and precision you would as if you were adjusting a solid lifter cam. Repeat until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way to the bottom of the lifter shell, well down from the retaining ring. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS
You never want to adjust the lifters with more than .040”, but you can use less such as .020" to .030”. By tightening the exhaust valve more you will begin to get a slightly lopey idle, which is preferred by some who like that sound. For higher compression engines, both valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Please feel free to call tech support at 520-229-9375.

[engineguyBill]

I too am wondering why a person would choose to use Rhoads lifters on a solid lifter camshaft . . . . .

Hey Harry, 72 isn't that old! Building more engines in future years will maintain your youthfulness and insure your longevity.

[enigma57]

Reckon I'm just one of those people who, when most folks say "Why?"...... I say "Why not?"

Its an experiment. I have a '57 Chevy sedan that I would like to pull a boat trailer with up in the Texas hill country. Need plenty of low end grunt, so I'm building a 292 inline 6 engine for it. Most of these engines were used in trucks. Mine came out of a combine. That (and the siamesed intake ports) are why I call it 'the tractor engine'. Backed up with 4.27 gears in a Dana 44 rearend (from '51 Merc) and a Borg Warner T-85N 3-speed transmission with 2.97 1st gear and .70 overdrive (from '65 Ford truck). OD solenoid wired through switch on shifter so I can split 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears like a 2-speed rearend if needed.

I cammed it to give as broad and flat a powerband from off idle to 5,300 RPMs as possible. Should be a real stump puller. Curious to see if I can expand on that even more.

I recall some local circle track guys running Rhoads lifters on solid lifter cams. Just thought I'd experiment with some to see if I can increase low end and mid-range whilst broadening the power band a bit more, as well.

Best regards,

Harry

P.S. >>> Don't get me wrong, Bill. At 72, I'm just glad to still be (somewhat) vertical and plenty happy to still be around. But I'll admit that more often than not on days when I feel like I've been rode hard and put up wet...... My 25 year old mind will tell my 72 year old body to do something and it says 'Are you nuts?!? Sit the #@%# back down!'

[pdq67]

He, He!!

Know the feeling well at 72!

pdq67

[enigma57]

Yeah, when I was younger I thought this getting old thing was supposed to be a process...... Not an event. Was doing fine...... Got up one day about 20 years ago and my body fell off!

Paul, at our age...... If you are walking along and there is this bump-scrape-bump-scrape sound behind you and you look behind you but no one is there...... Its your arse dragging! Don't ask me how I know that.

Best regards,

Harry

[Loves302ChevyDZ]

I just found this while surfing the other day.
Did you ever get anywhere with this?
I have a 302 Chevy that I am using the Rhoads VMAX lifters on a SFT Crower circle track camshaft.
I managed to get the idle vacuum up from a wandering 4-6" at 1200 rpm down to a steady 9" at 1100 rpm using the VMAX lifters.
Feeler Gauge setting of .041/.043 (cold) leaves .025/.025 for Rhoads (hot). Iron block + aluminum heads = (-.006").

Cold engine lash correction factors
o Using iron block and iron heads, add .002"
o Using iron block and aluminum heads, subtract .006"
o Using both aluminum block and heads, subtract .012"