can Oil be TOO slippery ?

[raynorshine]

thanks Bill, i thought 90% was crazy high..

-do you have more info, a rough breakdown of where friction occurs...rings, piston to bore, rod bearings, main bearings, etc..?

[MadBill]

I have a copy of the March 2018 Race Engine Technology magazine, which has a very detailed (11 pages) analysis of a 726 HP 2017 Chev NASCAR Cup engine.
At 8800 RPM, the total friction loss was 72.1 HP, consisting of:
Pistons and rods:......33
Mains and seals:.......18
Lifters and rockers:....9
Oil pump and drive:....5
Water pump: ...........4
Alternator:..............3

Keep in mind, many tens of millions of dollars have been spent reducing every one of these friction sources to the absolute minimum. It would be neat to see the breakdown for a more budget-oriented build.

[digger]

viewtopic.php?t=52141&start=15

[MadBill]

Wow, look at the top ring trace under load! Wonder how high tension vs. low vs. gas ported values would compare? Maybe we need to be dialing down the gas port count...

[digger]

The gas ports improve the response time of small clearance rings so not sure friction changes much

[raynorshine]

I have a copy of the March 2018 Race Engine Technology magazine, which has a very detailed (11 pages) analysis of a 726 HP 2017 Chev NASCAR Cup engine.
At 8800 RPM, the total friction loss was 72.1 HP, consisting of:
Pistons and rods:......33
Mains and seals:.......18
Lifters and rockers:....9
Oil pump and drive:....5
Water pump: ...........4
Alternator:..............3

Keep in mind, many tens of millions of dollars have been spent reducing every one of these friction sources to the absolute minimum. It would be neat to see the breakdown for a more budget-oriented build.

-thanks Bill, that's a lot of info, great breakdown

-yes be nice to see some common stock builds...and some budget stuff as well

[JCR]

Some GL5 gear oils can be too slippery and can cause synchro problems in some older gear boxes with bronze blocker rings.

It has nothing to do with the slipperiness but that GL5 has about twice the Sulphur/Phosphorus additives than the GL4 gear oil.
See here: https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

[peejay]

This is a lab anaylsis I had done of a non used bike oil having a solid repuation with racers.....The lab obviously does not test for every addtive...but you see other than ZDDP and calcium( I believe is a detergent?) there not much in it...

Redline Shockproof has calcium chunks in it to get its qualities. The calcium "wears out" rapidly, leaving you with gear oil that has no special properties other than candy coloring, so you have to change it out fairly frequently.

I thought it'd be neat to use the stuff with one of those clear rearend covers. Look like Pepto-Bismol or smurf guts sloshing around back there.

[Truckedup]

Some GL5 gear oils can be too slippery and can cause synchro problems in some older gear boxes with bronze blocker rings.

It has nothing to do with the slipperiness but that GL5 has about twice the Sulphur/Phosphorus additives than the GL4 gear oil.
See here: https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

It can and does affect synchro action because it can be too "slippery" for older style blocker rings to grip the gear cone....I have experienced the difference....Of course different GL5's may have more or less effect on this..

[RevTheory]

Wow, look at the top ring trace under load! Wonder how high tension vs. low vs. gas ported values would compare? Maybe we need to be dialing down the gas port count...

Yeah, definitely interesting.