blown alcohol

[prairiehotrodder]

I was at a Monster truck show a couple weeks ago. There were six trucks there all with blown alcohol 540 BBC engines making around 1500 hp. Are there any guys on speedtalk with experience with these engines ?

How high of compression do they run ?
How big of cams ?
How big of heads ?
What type of blowers ?
Are carbs as good as injection ?

All the trucks had Enderle injection but i'm guessing that had alot to do with bouncing around. Maybe carbs would works as good on a drag car ?
How important is big cubes ?
A 427 TD block with a 4.375 stroke would make 511 cubes with a 4.310 bore. Maybe a cheapish way to go ?
These engines interest me.
Brian

[pdq67]

Reading right along and down on the side waiting for return posts.

pdq67

[Dave Koehler]

Engine Builder Magazine had an article on those engines.
Try this link to see if it works. If not, go digging for the magazine and work from there.
Carbs for this app? oh hell no

https://edition.pagesuite-professional. ... 1e714c07c1

[Alaskaracer]

Alky injection is the only way to go with a blower unless it's a street deal. Carbs are fine on the street, but anything else, injection.....

Not sure what they are running, but I can give you the info on what I've had the opportunity to work on and around.

Compression - 11-11.5:1 static
Cam - all have been custom, ground for supercharger application
Heads - Everything from a heavily ported Dart 360 BBC all the way to an 11* Dart Big Chief
Blowers - All roots, last one was an older Kobelco 8/71. First one was a Kobelco Superman 14/71. Overdrive ratios for both combos were in the 55-65% range
Carbs will work, but in my honest opinion, are poor choices for these applications. Because they only deliver fuel on top of the blower, cylinder to cylinder tuning is impossible, and you're going to have distribution issues due to how the blowers discharge air. Also, getting a pair of carbs sized big enough to flow enough air brings another issue, which is having them sized internally big enough to flow enough fuel....not the best choice. Injection is the only way to feed these because it eliminates those issues.

Running Enderle injection has nothing to do with bouncing around. Enderle is by far the most popular choice in mechanical injection systems, especially for blowers, and has been around a very long time. They work, period. Also lots of support for those systems.


As far as your tall deck 427 truck engine.....Those blocks have been used for a long time, but offer no advantages over a standard passenger car block, and ZERO advantage over a good racing engine. The tall deck isn't needed for your bore or stroke, and is just added weight. By the time you spend the money to have it properly prepped, you're almost to the cost of a good aftermarket block already, and it will never have the strength of the aftermarket block no matter what you do to it. One thing to remember, cheap will only get you so far. When it comes to a supercharged application, and one making north of 1000 hp, there are a lot of stresses on that engine most don't think of. Sure, that block will hold up for a while, until it fails.....But I'd rather spend a little more money for some piece of mind and get a better block.

Just my $.02

[prairiehotrodder]

that all makes sense thanks. I am not usually a "go cheap" kind of guy when it comes to trying to build good power.
However the factory TD 427 engines are plentiful where I live and they do have 4 bolt mains and thick cylinder walls from what i've read.
I have a set of 990 heads that would work good if done up properly. Maybe a 4" or 4.25" stroke with only a .030 overbore on one of those blocks with an 8/71 blower would make 1200 hp easy enough ? I definitely like the look of the Enderle injection and i know it must work good by the amount of people using it. I just have zero knowledge about it personally. i found a few interesting articles online about blown alcohol combo's. Very interesting material.
Brian

[Dave Koehler]

You started off talking about Monster Show trucks.
How about backing up a little and tell us what you want to race?

[Alaskaracer]

that all makes sense thanks. I am not usually a "go cheap" kind of guy when it comes to trying to build good power.
However the factory TD 427 engines are plentiful where I live and they do have 4 bolt mains and thick cylinder walls from what i've read.
I have a set of 990 heads that would work good if done up properly. Maybe a 4" or 4.25" stroke with only a .030 overbore on one of those blocks with an 8/71 blower would make 1200 hp easy enough ? I definitely like the look of the Enderle injection and i know it must work good by the amount of people using it. I just have zero knowledge about it personally. i found a few interesting articles online about blown alcohol combo's. Very interesting material.
Brian

The cylinder walls on those blocks are no different than a run of the mill passenger car block. Another issue is the oil galley is next to the pan rail. If you're making room for a stroker crank and grind too far, block is toast. Aftermarket blocks also have priority main oiling where that block does not. I get it, they were used for years, but they are not the best choice for a build like you want. You also do not need a tall deck for that build. It's just extra weight. They also suffered from core shift, which would require correction. If it does, the walls can get a little thin then.

For your build an aftermarket block shouldn't even be a question. You'll also get steel main caps with angled bolts instead of straight bolts with cast caps. More strength here. For the money there isn't any reason to run a production block. None....

Also, what Dave said.....what's the build for.

[prairiehotrodder]

ok i can take that advice.

It would be for a drag race application. I'm just dreaming about it. I have a dart block in my race car and i know they are the way to go especially to get a big bore. Thanks for taking the time to give me some answers. Thats what i was looking for.
Brian

[Dave Koehler]

When a supercharger and boost is involved cubic inches and big bores becomes less important.

[prairiehotrodder]

Hey Dave, tell me about your injection. I tried to go to your website but my computer blocks it for some reason.

Brian

[pdq67]

I have to wonder about all this when I read that the little-bitty TT engines can make BIG POWER!!

I will say that I do figure a 4.25" or maybe a 4.375" stroked crank should drop in a BBC with not too much trouble.

I also like the idea of a tall deck block due to the ability to install longer rods to help hold cylinder wall flex/friction down.

BUT a tall deck block is heavier like said!!

pdq67 and my 496

[prairiehotrodder]

I'm not worried about the weight of a tall deck. I wish i would have bought a tall deck block for my malibu. Then i would have so much more potential. However if the TD 427 stock blocks can't be trusted at that power level that is definitly a concern.

Also the long rod talk never ends, not sure what the truth is there. Maybe with boost and alcohol having longer rods is more of a concern ?

Brian

[Dave Koehler]

Yeah, I see that block also. It's a firefox and google thing. I have no idea but I assume I will waste the rest of the day getting it sorted.

[jred]

Built a few of those for a friends monster trucks and shows,, 12.5 to 1 on alcohol 28lbs boost 8-71 blowers with enderle injection

At first we used 427 tall deck blocks and bored them .100 or .125 over and gm rectangular port heads stock steel ls7 crank and rods with ARP bolts and some head porting, they would last for a while.

Hard on the engines , trucks weigh 10,000 pounds , Fire up with no warm up , runs the blazes out of them, high rpm, jumping standing up on the rear wheels, spinning donuts, flipping over both backwards and side ways.

He always like more compression because of easy starting when the trucks would sit around cold , jump in crank start and take off in no time.

At 1 time he bought 5 new ls7 engines from GM complete, We had trouble with all 5 engines , There was no Warranty on engines in GMs catalogue said off road use only NO WARRANTY all 5 engines had problems 2 of them the line-bore was out over .002 in the center of the block and on size on #1 and 5 .. 1 engine I swear the rods were torqued to the main bolt torque 7/16 bolts and the mains were torqued to the rod torque size.

Finally he came into some money and we started building some nice stuff Dart big M with steel caps at that time 4.5 stroke crank SRP?JE pistons gear drives roller cams custom oil pans with PROTOPLINE heads oringed blocks and reciver grooves..

We ended buying the good stuff , with all the prep work on the stock stuff when all was said and done it wasn't that much more to move up to a dart block,, and its way stronger

[prairiehotrodder]

Thanks again, seems a Dart block is the way to go. I'm suprised at the high compression you mention.