Whats Your Definition Of a Engine Builder ??

[modok]

What's a "tuner" ? then
One definition "engine tuning" involves.....tuning EVERY thing. That gets you into airflow.
You don't need to know how to grind a crank or make a washer.
how many man-hours have you spent making washers?

[CamKing]

ability as a machinist, tho may not necessarily machine anything.

My Dad was considered one of the greatest race engine builders of his generation, but he was a crap machinist.
He hired some of the best machinists in the country, and had the ability to measure the machinist's work, to know if it was correct, just don't ask him to machine something on the mill or lathe.

I've read all of what I could find on your dad. He was straight bad ass. I've tired to find out if he wrote any books, but my experience is many guys are so focused on what they are doing, they don't think writing things out is worth the time they could be moving forward.

My dad never cared about what happened yesterday. He was always thinking about what he was going to do today, to be ready for tomorrow.

There is a historian that wants to right a book about my dad. He interviewed him, before he passed. I'm supposed to send him all my dad's notes, and photos, but I haven't got around to it.

[piston guy]

Anyone who buys the appropriate amount of tools can be an engine ''assembler". Others copy combinations built by others and call themselves engine builders. "To me" an engine "builder" doesn't "have" to be a world class machinist or be able to balance his on rotator. BUT he/she MUST be able to choose the components that work together to get the end result the customer is looking for. This can involve 10 different intakes , rocker assemblies, rod manufacturers , piston companies etc.There are SO many choices out there now that knowledge/experience of how the components interact to make the most power / endurance is what qualifies as an engine "builder"

[ClassAct]

My Dad was considered one of the greatest race engine builders of his generation, but he was a crap machinist.
He hired some of the best machinists in the country, and had the ability to measure the machinist's work, to know if it was correct, just don't ask him to machine something on the mill or lathe.

I've read all of what I could find on your dad. He was straight bad ass. I've tired to find out if he wrote any books, but my experience is many guys are so focused on what they are doing, they don't think writing things out is worth the time they could be moving forward.

My dad never cared about what happened yesterday. He was always thinking about what he was going to do today, to be ready for tomorrow.

There is a historian that wants to right a book about my dad. He interviewed him, before he passed. I'm supposed to send him all my dad's notes, and photos, but I haven't got around to it.

Wow that would be cool. If the guy is a respected author and is familiar with automotive world that would be a book worth reading.

If it happens, sing me up for the first copy. I'm in. I'll even prepay. That book would be covering history that needs to be recorded.

[gunt]

Anyone who buys the appropriate amount of tools can be an engine ''assembler". Others copy combinations built by others and call themselves engine builders. "To me" an engine "builder" doesn't "have" to be a world class machinist or be able to balance his on rotator. BUT he/she MUST be able to choose the components that work together to get the end result the customer is looking for. This can involve 10 different intakes , rocker assemblies, rod manufacturers , piston companies etc.There are SO many choices out there now that knowledge/experience of how the components interact to make the most power / endurance is what qualifies as an engine "builder"

BUT , I once had a problem with a block someone bored that had a taper on it so bad it cough the piston as it dropped with out rings , on arriving back to this guys huge name spot , there was an illusion of tools , they were using T's for measuring bore , no dial bore gauge at all , he threw me back the money form new piston and his charges then threw the cost of getting some one else top bore it , that day 2 out of 5 machine shops only had a dial bore gauge

funny thing was after this i found out that his formula ford 1.6l pushrod scrap , that he races , someone else was machining and building them for him for the las 18yrs

[mavbike]

I mostly lurk, study, and learn from the people here that have much more knowledge and experience than I do,, but, food for thought for the original poster.

A college degree may not be required, but could be helpful. Weather machining, designing a combination, or predicting the outcome of a combination, a lot of math is involved. Some people can find resources and learn the math without a classroom, some can not.
Some things have more to do with what I call "mechanical aptitude." Similar to "artistic ability.". That is the ability to look at an assembly and understand how it goes together and how it works.
Then there are things that you can not learn in school. This is knowledge that must be EARNED through mistakes, experience, or by learning from others who have more experience.
A perfect example of this is the dynamic vs static compression threads on this forum. Anyone that can find the formulas and do the math, or find the software/ website and plug in numbers, can get the results... But as Cam King pointed out, there is no simple formula that can give you a right answer.
Some people found the numbers helpful because based on their knowledge and experience,,, they find the numbers helpful. But without knowledge and experience the numbers are useless.
Lurking on this forum, I've seen posts by many people, some of whom appear to be college educated and some don't.
But regardless of their education, all of the real "Experts" or "Masters" had to earn their ability through hard mistakes and experience. I do think the learning curve can be sped up by learning from others with more experience.
A classroom can give you knowledge or you can seek knowledge and educate yourself.
But consistent accurate measurements require practice and feel that can not be read in a text book and engine design is not just one simple predictable formula.

Someone starring out in this field could learn from college, on the job training, or mentors. But without common sense, attention to detail, some natural aptitude, and experience, a person will never be a good machinest, builder, or designer.

[Mark O'Neal]

To go from engine builder to great engine builder, you just need a better understanding of what each part does, and why.

To design and optimize a combination of parts to be the best at a specific task is when it goes from engine builder to designer.

One of the best engine builders I ever met has thirty years of hand's-on experience in the how. He knows what will work from dissecting failures in OEM and performance engines. He's a genius machinist who can run any machine in the shop, maintain it, repair it, hit the tenths consistently, is meticulous in assembly, but has very little understanding of the why theory.

I've never met any one guy who could do all the above hand's-on and if asked could select and specify the parts to win in an engine family and class of racing he's never seen. That's your master/great engine builder. He may exist; I've just never met him.

Mike Blackstone. He's now in the UP. Like all of us, he's old.

You're welcome

[CamKing]

An engine builder would be someone that can unassisted assemble engines.

No, that's an engine assembler.

[rebelyell]

What a builder is Not: one of the plethora of clowns , despots and tyrants on the Car channels' Car programs.

Notice how they're all experts; some even selling tour tickets of their shops.

But tell me last time you saw one of em do much more with a motor than start a new crate; then it's high drama.


A fellow who has someone else build/assemble his lower end but then bolts his new pair of heads on himself, is neither assembler or builder. Give it a year or so & Same guy will often times refer back to himself as having built same motor.

[gmrocket]

I know lots of people who can build an engine..it’s a pretty low bar. Many of them have been doing it for years and building junk that blows up or doesn’t make the power it should.

They are still engine builders...making a living doing poor work.

at the top of the heap are elite engine builders...who can take those same parts used by the basic engine builders and create something way better...that exceeds expectations and lives . From a mild street engine to a balls out race piece, a true good builder makes every engine they build work at its max potential, exceeding expectations

[Caprimaniac]

A person who take care to do Critical measurements and apropriate changes to machine parts to fit a combustion engine and, in the end, assemble the engine and make it more reliable, longer lasting & higher output than a layman would.

[hoodeng]

A lot of salient points have been made, all relevant. An engine builder evolves, a person might aspire to become what he thinks is an engine builder but after time finds he does not have the coverage of all aspects to call himself thus. He can still be very relevant in fields of engine reconditioning, machining, assembly,interrelating or development [porting etc] but just can't jag all those things together, there is no problem with that as the person if they remain interested in the industry will go on to greater things in their chosen field.

I also have not met a thirty something encompassing engine builder, i have met thirty something aspiring engine builders.
My take on an engine builder is someone who comes from a machining background that is working in a field that exposes them to all aspects to finished and tested/proven engines, mind you there are guys i would call engine builders that have never touched a performance engine but have built, fabricated parts and satisfactorily repaired diesel engines that will give many thousands of hours of 100% service.
I think repeatable measurement is the first key, being comfortable and relevant with your ability's and knowing when to call in higher experience in any given aspect.
Another reason i cited machining as a prerequisite is the understanding of materials and heat treatment.

Cheers.

[Walter R. Malik]

One thing not mentioned here is that they never stop learning and are always open to new and better ways, then able to implement whatever those things they have learned and tested throughout time.

[Sparksalot]

Love the purposely vague question.

Engine builders for the stuff we modify are the big auto manufacturers supplying the raw material we work with. Non of us are rich enough to create from scratch anything we lay our hands, intellect and efforts onto.

[modok]

I thought it was a silly question but I guess it isn't.
Seems to be two main definitions

One- a person who sells engines built to order

Two- a person who has skills needed to physically build an engine.

here a "home builder" is a company that builds the house, in england it's is the guy with the hammer.